steel vs ss pins?
- Thread starter Hopkins
- Start date
They will eventually rust completely and are likely to impinge iron oxides (rust) into the brass. Various iron oxides are used as abrasives and not something you want near a sizing die. Stick with the stainless pins.
The biggest problem is rusting. This is not a small thing as you are thinking i.e. I just replace them. The problem with rusting is that they would rust as you are using them and as many people who accidentally include a steel case in their batch of brass to be cleaned, the rust from the steel goes into the water and then on to the brass which will cause a BIG mess which is the complete opposite of what you are trying to do cleaning with SS media. This is not an eventual thing but the very first time you use it. They might also magnetize which would be a bad thing since they would then clump.
This should be a non starter.
This should be a non starter.
Been using steel BB's and hot soapy water (Non Chlorinated, liquid, hand dish washing detergent; Joy, Sunlight, Ajax)in a Thumblers Tumbler for more than 3 decades. Usually an hour or two is sufficient.
I then hot rinse the brass. make sure it is clear of stuck BB's. Dry in an oven at <250*F for a couple of hours.
IMHO, BB's are CHEAP! AND they work adequately!
Two issues.
#1. The primer pockets dont get cleaned. That creates an additional step.
#2. You must completely rinse and dry the BB's and coat them with rust preventative to store them.
I have seen no issues with BB's clumping from being "magnetized"! Small necked large capacity cases occasionally suffer from BB, "constipation"
! Ya have to take a paper clip and release the BB's that have become wedged into the neck. .22/250's, etc are good ones for this issue. However, it is only one or two in a batch.
The Stainless Steel pins would work great for primer pockets and flash holes.
I would still dry the pins and lightly oil them for storage.
I may try them when the price becomes less than a 1# can of Powder!
Greg
I then hot rinse the brass. make sure it is clear of stuck BB's. Dry in an oven at <250*F for a couple of hours.
IMHO, BB's are CHEAP! AND they work adequately!
Two issues.
#1. The primer pockets dont get cleaned. That creates an additional step.
#2. You must completely rinse and dry the BB's and coat them with rust preventative to store them.
I have seen no issues with BB's clumping from being "magnetized"! Small necked large capacity cases occasionally suffer from BB, "constipation"
! Ya have to take a paper clip and release the BB's that have become wedged into the neck. .22/250's, etc are good ones for this issue. However, it is only one or two in a batch.The Stainless Steel pins would work great for primer pockets and flash holes.
I would still dry the pins and lightly oil them for storage.
I may try them when the price becomes less than a 1# can of Powder!
Greg
While I do understand the concept of metallurgical contamination from a weldors stand point. Steel with Stainless Steel as an example. I have seen no alarming effects on brass from using steel BB's as cleaning media. The Brass is in a water,detergent solution at no more than 160*F initially.
IMHO, Any concern about "impact contamination" of steel(iron oxides) into brass would have to be proven by metallographic analysis. I have seen no evidence. MOF I have been shooting the same 100 pieces of Federal Brass in a .30/338 since building the rifle, back in 1993. That brass has been reloaded , in most cases, 8X. The cleaning method is the same as I have described above. No! I am not a well known shooter/competitor and this example is based on my limited, albeit 3 decades of experience with this cleaning method, on more than one rifle.
If anyone would desire to delve into the metallurgical aspects of this cleaning process, I would love to hear the findings. But please, Scientific Method, not just "opinions" ;D! Good Shootin'! Greg
IMHO, Any concern about "impact contamination" of steel(iron oxides) into brass would have to be proven by metallographic analysis. I have seen no evidence. MOF I have been shooting the same 100 pieces of Federal Brass in a .30/338 since building the rifle, back in 1993. That brass has been reloaded , in most cases, 8X. The cleaning method is the same as I have described above. No! I am not a well known shooter/competitor and this example is based on my limited, albeit 3 decades of experience with this cleaning method, on more than one rifle.
If anyone would desire to delve into the metallurgical aspects of this cleaning process, I would love to hear the findings. But please, Scientific Method, not just "opinions" ;D! Good Shootin'! Greg
While I certainly accept your experience and anecdotal results, Greg, I have seen iron impingement from steel shot peening of parts. That may not be a problem with tumbled brass, as you indicated. But, since we are only taking about three or four dollars, I just don't see the point. [br]
Out of curiosity: Do the BBs effectively clean the case interior? Do they get inside small-necked cases like .22 and 6mm? Thanks.
Out of curiosity: Do the BBs effectively clean the case interior? Do they get inside small-necked cases like .22 and 6mm? Thanks.
sleepygator. Yes, absolutely. However. .22 is about as small as I would want to try BB's. And .22 centerfire case shape is a factor as well. That small neck can become a jamming point. ie .22/250, .223 WSSM,etc
Anecdotal is based on someone elses story. I have related first person, albeit, subjective.
However I am not the first or the only person who has used this method (that statement is anecdotal ;D)
I understand impact plating and the affinity of some metals or alloys for the molecules of another element or alloy. Example is "moly plating"!
However, I do want to emphasize that this is only a preferred cleaning method that I have used successfully for many years. My point is; I have no evidence of brass deterioration, work hardening or transfer of iron oxides into the brass from this cleaning method. I would expect to see rusty brass, prematurely cracked brass or other visual indicators if there is an issue. I have observed none of these. MOF, loaded .300 Savage ammo (handloads)left in a leather wallet from last hunting season has the tell-tale green stain developing where it was in direct contact with the leather, but no evidence of "iron oxides" ! That is about a worse case test scenario as one could accidentally set up!!
Price? Depends on your budget!
As I said, I would like to try the SS pins. Presently the price is not that attractive. The benefit would be that it would eliminate one step in brass preparation. Good Shootin'
Greg
Anecdotal is based on someone elses story. I have related first person, albeit, subjective.
However I am not the first or the only person who has used this method (that statement is anecdotal ;D)
I understand impact plating and the affinity of some metals or alloys for the molecules of another element or alloy. Example is "moly plating"!
However, I do want to emphasize that this is only a preferred cleaning method that I have used successfully for many years. My point is; I have no evidence of brass deterioration, work hardening or transfer of iron oxides into the brass from this cleaning method. I would expect to see rusty brass, prematurely cracked brass or other visual indicators if there is an issue. I have observed none of these. MOF, loaded .300 Savage ammo (handloads)left in a leather wallet from last hunting season has the tell-tale green stain developing where it was in direct contact with the leather, but no evidence of "iron oxides" ! That is about a worse case test scenario as one could accidentally set up!
! Price? Depends on your budget!
As I said, I would like to try the SS pins. Presently the price is not that attractive. The benefit would be that it would eliminate one step in brass preparation. Good Shootin'
Greg
Greg,
Thanks for the reply. I do use BBs for HBN bullet coating but they are zinc plated, degreased and used in a vibratory tumbler unlike the Thumbler's rotary. BTW, your results are anecdotal to me.
Thanks for the reply. I do use BBs for HBN bullet coating but they are zinc plated, degreased and used in a vibratory tumbler unlike the Thumbler's rotary. BTW, your results are anecdotal to me.
Sleeepygator, Subjective, nevertheless :-X !
Just for further clarity. The BB's I use for cleaning brass are steel BB shot used in a BB gun, available at Walmart, Sports Authority, Midway, et al!. Not the hardened steel mini bearings often used in impact plating processes. Here is the cost issue confusion?
I have a NECO process kit that I use to moly coat bullets. Those "bearings" never come in contact with liquid solutions except when the moly coating process becomes contaminated with jacket/core seating lube. Then they get a "bath" on their own ;D! Have FUN!
Greg
! Just for further clarity. The BB's I use for cleaning brass are steel BB shot used in a BB gun, available at Walmart, Sports Authority, Midway, et al!. Not the hardened steel mini bearings often used in impact plating processes. Here is the cost issue confusion?
I have a NECO process kit that I use to moly coat bullets. Those "bearings" never come in contact with liquid solutions except when the moly coating process becomes contaminated with jacket/core seating lube. Then they get a "bath" on their own ;D! Have FUN!
Greg
Being the SS media is almost non-ferrous you can leave it wet/damp in the tumbler and not have to worry about completely drying it each time you use it which could become time-consuming since there is so much surface area on the little pins they hold alot of water and they tend to mat down on a towel and take a while to dry out even on a SHAMWOW Lol.
Funny that they are stainless and magnetic but mine have not rusted and have been wet for most of a year and if they were normal steel it would almost surely be a rusted mess.
Funny that they are stainless and magnetic but mine have not rusted and have been wet for most of a year and if they were normal steel it would almost surely be a rusted mess.
Do you know what Stainless Steel Alloy is used in the pins? The cutting process will work harden Austenitic Stainless Steel forming Ferrite in the grain boundaries. That is where you get your "magnetic properties". Remember. Stainless Steel is still 50% iron. It is the Chrome oxides that form on the surface that protect it from rusting. It would be interesting to try the pins. Where do you buy them? How much. The last I checked, they were about $50 for 5#.
Greg
Greg
PS, I would still take the trouble to dry and oil them if they were to be stored!
You could dry them in the oven, on a cookie sheet. Greg
You could dry them in the oven, on a cookie sheet. Greg
The pins are almost certainly either 316 or 304. Mine are never dry and remain shiny. Your price information is still good, they are ~$50/5 lb. If your present setup is working, the only benefits would be clean primer pockets and possibly faster processing. Cost/benefit might not be worth it. [br]
http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/ [br]
http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/ [br]
sleepygator! Thanks. You're right. Thats 2# of powder ! I'll go the extra step and clean the PP separately! Thats when I usually do a case inspection, anyway! Thanks again! Greg
! I'll go the extra step and clean the PP separately! Thats when I usually do a case inspection, anyway! Thanks again! Gregsleepygator said:
Check out this site http://www.pelletsllc.com/
Pins are cheaper here, somewhere in the area of $3/lb shipped in USPS Flat Rate box.
amlevin said:
Good find. My wire measures Ø.038" X .265". Pellets does not list that length but could probably be persuaded to produce some.
That is a GOOD price but I believe you have to buy 25#, IIRC. I've seen this before and made a call. If they have changed their quantity requirement. Please let me know! Gregamlevin said:
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