Starting Load Development - Questions

[Phil3]

New to reloading and need help on load development. I have been told it is probably a good idea to shoot various factory ammo to learn what a gun "likes", before investing into a lot of different bullets, powder, etc. A few questions.

1) Does the testing need to be done with very high quality ammo or average quality stuff? Expensive stuff can cost 3X what plain vanilla ammo does ($0.50/shot to $1.60/shot).

2) How many groups and rounds per group do I need to shoot to draw any real conclusions about performance? If just 20, I would try to buy a box of 20 only.

3) Reverse engineering factory ammo is easy for the case, powder weight, bullet weight, and seating depth, but what about powder used, bullet make (if not indicated on ammo box) or primer used?

I am shooting an AR15 built for shooting off a bench, for now, but need advise in this process for future bolt rifles as well.

Thanks.

- Phil

 

[jr600yd]

OK, you're going to shoot a 223 off the bench. What length & barrel twist? Are you looking to shoot one rd at a time or do you want magazine length ammo? What distance do you plan shoot at 100, 300, 600, 1K yds? Do you plan on shooting paper targets, reaction targets or some kind of critter? What we really need is a little more info from you

 

[Phil3]

I mainly need to understand the process for finding the right load, not necessarily what to start with, but welcome suggestions on that as well. The info you need.

AR15. 223 Remington. Krieger barrel cut to minimum SAAMI 223 Remington specs. 22" long, .920 muzzle diameter, 1:9" twist. Mag length ammo. 100 yards primarily, very rarely at 300 (range is 2 hours away). Paper targets only. Was considering Sierra 53 grain flat based hollow point, CCI 400 primers, Hogdon H322 or Benchmark powder and Winchester brass. But, wide open to any starting point. Willing to buy several powders now so as to avoid multiple Hazmat charges (same goes for primers).

My objective is to shoot the smallest groups possible with a gas gun.

- Phil

 

[fdshuster]

phil3: If you've not already been there, check out this sites 223 cartridge info page: a wealth of info there. I really don't see what or how much you can learn by firing factory ammo. As you mentioned how do you duplicate powder? Factory ammo is loaded with bullets seated to "one-size-fits-all", so how could that mean anything in your chamber/throat? Using the "cheap" bulk bullets (like the 55 gr. fmj military w/ crimping groove) will prove to be a waste of time, money and more importantly barrel life. I've compared them side-by-side using one of the Sierra MatchKings, all else being the same, and the fmj might hold 4", 5 shot groups at 100 yd, while the Sierra's will easily be under moa. Buy and use the best components you can/ there are no "bargains". From your description of the rifle, sounds like you have one of the best: feed it the best ammo. Also, if possible get a good scope on the AR, properly mounted (easy to do if it's a flatop), and eliminate sighting errors that are common with iron sights. All my load development with my AR's is done with a 12x (minimum) Leupold scope. Your choice of the 53 gr. Sierra #1400 is my standard lightweight accuracy bullet for most of my 22 centerfires. It has delivered, over many years. I do not judge a loads accuracy potential 'til I see the results of the average of four, 5 shot groups, more is better. A miraculous 3 shot group, especially at 100 yds. means nothing to me. Once I have what I think is an accurate load, at 100, it's off to 200 yd., and if the groups open up, it will probably be dumped. If it holds up at 200, then it's off to 300 yd./ keep putting more and more demands on it.

 

[Phil3]

Frank, thank you for your helpful reply.

I did check out the page on this site for 223 Remington. So many choices, but will likely pick one that is stated to work well for the AR, and/or one of the "accuracy" loads from Sierra. I know my rifle may respond differently, but at least a starting point.

I generally can shoot a 5 shot group under 1" at 100 yards using PMC Bronze ammo 55 grain 55 FMJ. These were crimped. I measured a few rounds from case base to bullet ogive, and there were huge differences. I used this stuff to just break in the barrel. My best 5 shot group on barrel break-in day was about .650". I was not able to do any better with BlackHills remanufactured 55 FMJ ammo, so maybe it is me. Shooting off a range sand or lead shot bag.

The rifle should do well. The Krieger barrel, Geissele 2 stage trigger set at 2 lbs for stage one and 8 oz for stage two, free float tube, etc. The scope might be a weak point. It is a Bushnell 6 - 24 x 50 mil-dot tactical scope (series 4200). It supposedly is good, but if I want to be serious about small groups may just get a Weaver 36X so I can see what I am really aiming at. Or, may have to pony up for the Nightforce. I will be getting a long range bolt rifle so may need that scope anyway. The scope mount I use is an Armalite one piece. I checked it with a Kokopelli scope alignment tool and it was dead perfect.

I never shoot 3 shot groups, only five. I DID have some amazing 3 shot groups, but just don't feel those are conclusive. Good to hear that the Sierra 1400 works well.

I tend to buy the best components on anything, so no worries on that. I have been told Winchester brass is good, and no need for something like Lapua on the AR. I will use it for sure on a bolt gun. The reloading equipment I recently ordered should produce good stuff as well. Forster, Redding, Sinclair, etc will dominate the bench. I just need knowledge, and appreciate your willingness to share that with me.

Why might a load fall apart at longer distances vs a short distance? I know it can...just not entirely sure why.

Thanks.

- Phil

 

[fdshuster]

phil3: If able compare the PMC factory loads with Black Hills match loads that use the 69 gr. Sierra #1380, for example. I would expect those group averages to outperform the PMC. I personally would not feel handicapped with your 6-24 Bushnell at 1 & 200 yds. Realize that with a 36x you are giving up some clarity, light gathering brightness, and a whole lot of field-of-view. I personally don't go above 20 to 24x unless/until the distances are greater than 300 yds. Also with a straight power 36 you will not be able to dial down magnification in times of heavy mirage, an advantage with the variables, like your Bushnell. Longer distances equal more demand on exterior ballistics: the quality of the bullet, retained velocity, wind factor, sighting errors, bench technique becomes more critical, etc. Things you could get away with at 100 will jump up and bite you at 300 and beyond. The old "rule" that a 1" group at 100 yd does not equal a 3" group at 300 yd., will become very evident, very fast. An additional note, just thought about it when you mentioned "shooting off a range bag". An excellent article by M.L.McPherson in the October 2001 issue of Precision Shooting magazine, " A ? of Bag Placement and Gun Design". He found the best accuracy with an AR-15 with the front bag kept as close as possible to the front of the receiver. I also tried it, and it works.

 

[jr600yd]

H-322 and the 52-53gr SMK's make an excellent round for short range work. I have an AR that will print under 1/4" with a light load of H-322 and either of these bullets at 100 yds