stainless/wet tumbling issue

[Deleted old_dood]

I just realized that cleaning brass using this method is causing my case mouths to get peened over. I determined this by trying to insert a Forster case trimmer pilot into the case mouths of just tumbled brass. It wouldn't fit in any of them. These cases were de primed only, not neck or FL sized. I guess I'll have to chamfer case mouths now before resizing and then, again after trimming. Or, I could buy a trimmer that doesn't use a pilot (excuse to buy Wilson trimmer).

 

[jlow]

Read my posting on this thread:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3818615.msg36246780#msg36246780

 

[infantrytrophy]

How long are you tumbling? Just to make sure that your technique is not causing the problem, try changing a few things. Are you filling (or almost filling) the tumbler with water, or tumbling with a low water level? I'm thinking that maybe tumbling too long or tumbling with a partially-empty tumbler might be rough on the brass.

If your technique is not the problem, then either of the solutions you mentioned should work. I use a Giraud trimmer that trims, chamfers and deburs in one step, so any peening of the case mouth would be of no consequence.

Another thought - are you sizing before tumbling? It seems to me that fired (but unsized) cases should have expanded case necks that should be a little loose for the pilot. You could try a smaller pilot - bit enough to center the case, but loose enough that any slight peening wouldn't be a problem. Forster does some limited custom work - they might turn down a pilot a few thousandths for a nominal charge.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

How long are you tumbling? Just to make sure that your technique is not causing the problem, try changing a few things. Are you filling (or almost filling) the tumbler with water, or tumbling with a low water level? I'm thinking that maybe tumbling too long or tumbling with a partially-empty tumbler might be rough on the brass.

If your technique is not the problem, then either of the solutions you mentioned should work. I use a Giraud trimmer that trims, chamfers and deburs in one step, so any peening of the case mouth would be of no consequence.

Another thought - are you sizing before tumbling? It seems to me that fired (but unsized) cases should have expanded case necks that should be a little loose for the pilot. You could try a smaller pilot - bit enough to center the case, but loose enough that any slight peening wouldn't be a problem. Forster does some limited custom work - they might turn down a pilot a few thousandths for a nominal charge.

I tumble about 100 (6BR) cases at a time. Fill the drum with water about an inch from the top and tumble for 3 1/2 - 4 hrs. My OP said I was only decapping before tumbling. The pilot fit into the case mouths loose before tumbling. Now it won't go in at all. I have to lightly chamfer case mouth interiors. Since the next step is neck sizing, I feel I should probably outside chamfer also to avoid problems going into the die bushing. Am I tumbling to long a period of time?

 

[infantrytrophy]

How long are you tumbling? Just to make sure that your technique is not causing the problem, try changing a few things. Are you filling (or almost filling) the tumbler with water, or tumbling with a low water level? I'm thinking that maybe tumbling too long or tumbling with a partially-empty tumbler might be rough on the brass.

If your technique is not the problem, then either of the solutions you mentioned should work. I use a Giraud trimmer that trims, chamfers and deburs in one step, so any peening of the case mouth would be of no consequence.

Another thought - are you sizing before tumbling? It seems to me that fired (but unsized) cases should have expanded case necks that should be a little loose for the pilot. You could try a smaller pilot - bit enough to center the case, but loose enough that any slight peening wouldn't be a problem. Forster does some limited custom work - they might turn down a pilot a few thousandths for a nominal charge.

I tumble about 100 (6BR) cases at a time. Fill the drum with water about an inch from the top and tumble for 3 1/2 - 4 hrs. My OP said I was only decapping before tumbling. The pilot fit into the case mouths loose before tumbling. Now it won't go in at all. I have to lightly chamfer case mouth interiors. Since the next step is neck sizing, I feel I should probably outside chamfer also to avoid problems going into the die bushing. Am I tumbling to long a period of time?

My apology - I overlooked your comment that the cases were deprimed only. Sounds like your technique is good, in line with what others do. I tumble a little less, about 2-3 hours, but doubt that your longer time would make much difference. Try tumbling for 2 hours and see if it makes a difference. If you use Lemishine along with dishwasher soap, your cases would be plenty clean after 2 hours.

I have noticed that my tumbled cases don't have the pristine chamfer that they had when I previously loaded them. Maybe this is similar to what you are calling "peening". I just considered it insignificant since there was no difficulty in sizing them, and after passing them through the Giraud the case mouths are "pristine" again. Apparently the peening is noticeable to you because of the Forster pilot issue.

Another comment, not related to SS media tumbling. Last year I started loading for 6HAGAR with the new Hornady brass. I noticed that the new cases had a pronounced "thickening" (what you might call "peening") at the case mouth. This was noticed because I was trying to measure the neck wall thickness with a tubing micrometer, and the bulbous-like thickening at the case mouth screwed up the reading. I removed this from all of the cases with a deburring tool. Worked fine - I got much more repeatable readings for the case neck thickness. This must have been similar to the peening that you described. Whatever the cause, it did no harm to the brass - just the minor hassle of the extra step.

Just curious - are your 6BR rounds fired from a bolt rifle? I would think that the brass would be pretty clean (on the outside at least) after firing, and would need only minimal cleaning. I don't even tumble my 6BR/bolt gun brass - just give it a quick wipe with a "Wet Ones" baby diaper wipe at the range. I like to use the SS media/wet tumble for brass fired from an AR, since the brass tends to be filthy, especially the .223 brass. Also, I want the inside of the cases clean (especially .223 brass) so that I can check for a stretch ring inside - a big issue with AR-fired brass. That would probably not be applicable for 6BR fired from a bolt gun, so the SS media tumbling may be overkill in your case. Not criticizing, just sayin'. Brass fired from an AR gets beat up and dirty, whereas 6BR brass fired from a competition-type bolt gun is undamaged and very clean in comparison.

Randy

 

[Steve Blair]

How long are you tumbling? Just to make sure that your technique is not causing the problem, try changing a few things. Are you filling (or almost filling) the tumbler with water, or tumbling with a low water level? I'm thinking that maybe tumbling too long or tumbling with a partially-empty tumbler might be rough on the brass.

If your technique is not the problem, then either of the solutions you mentioned should work. I use a Giraud trimmer that trims, chamfers and deburs in one step, so any peening of the case mouth would be of no consequence.

Another thought - are you sizing before tumbling? It seems to me that fired (but unsized) cases should have expanded case necks that should be a little loose for the pilot. You could try a smaller pilot - bit enough to center the case, but loose enough that any slight peening wouldn't be a problem. Forster does some limited custom work - they might turn down a pilot a few thousandths for a nominal charge.

I tumble about 100 (6BR) cases at a time. Fill the drum with water about an inch from the top and tumble for 3 1/2 - 4 hrs. My OP said I was only decapping before tumbling. The pilot fit into the case mouths loose before tumbling. Now it won't go in at all. I have to lightly chamfer case mouth interiors. Since the next step is neck sizing, I feel I should probably outside chamfer also to avoid problems going into the die bushing. Am I tumbling to long a period of time?

My apology - I overlooked your comment that the cases were deprimed only. Sounds like your technique is good, in line with what others do. I tumble a little less, about 2-3 hours, but doubt that your longer time would make much difference. Try tumbling for 2 hours and see if it makes a difference. If you use Lemishine along with dishwasher soap, your cases would be plenty clean after 2 hours.

I have noticed that my tumbled cases don't have the pristine chamfer that they had when I previously loaded them. Maybe this is similar to what you are calling "peening". I just considered it insignificant since there was no difficulty in sizing them, and after passing them through the Giraud the case mouths are "pristine" again. Apparently the peening is noticeable to you because of the Forster pilot issue.
Randy

[br]
Randy has the key point here, use of a Giraud trimmer. I have a Giraud and use it every time after tumbling and annealing, which is after every firing. Leaves the cases uniform and beautifully chamfered in one, easy pass. I tumble for 30 minutes in SS pins and my cases are very clean. Why is it necessary to tumble for longer?

 

[jlow]

Sleepygator is correct, as I try unsuccessfully to point the OP to the previous thread (and you can find much more in depth info if you use the search function as this has been discussed in detailed more than once), tumble too long, too many cases, and not enough SS media.

 

[AR Shooter]

Definitely tumbling too long based on my experience. About an hour (1) works well with smokeless. Have also gone to small ceramic media with only 1# of stainless pins and 3# of ceramic. Can be a bit of a PITA to get the ceramic out of 2-3 cases out of 100+, or so. Not stuck in the case, just turned sideways so have to shake up and down a bit to get the media out of my 6.5mm cases. Falls right out of 7mm and larger and have not tried on anything smaller.

 

[Gillie Dog]

I tumple for 30 minutes in SS pins and my cases are very clean. Why is it necessary to tumble for longer?

I agree.

Do just like directions suggest if running a Thumbler, 2 pounds brass, citric, Dawn but I use hot tap water and once fired straight wall pistol come out clean in 30 minutes. Adjust the citric quantity if need be to get time down to a reasonable length if necessary. Then separate pins, refill and go again with new solution until all cases are done is my program. Rifle bottle necks I still do ultrasonic in small batches, with citric and Dawn, but my quantity is small, maybe 50 at a time in two or three runs.

Peening can be stopped/minimized to the point it is not detectable by monitoring program and short time tumbling.

GD

 

[Deleted old_dood]

Sleepygator is correct, as I try unsuccessfully to point the OP to the previous thread (and you can find much more in depth info if you use the search function as this has been discussed in detailed more than once), tumble too long, too many cases, and not enough SS media.

it wasn't unsuccessful. I did look at that post. In the past, when using the search function on many forums, I've found that searching for "stainless tumbling damaging brass" would give results for "stainless" and every other word in the search term, so that's why I didn't bother. Thanks for your help though (everyone's actually). I'll be doing some experimentation with shorter times with smaller amounts of brass. I bought the kit from STM so I do use the Lemishine.

I tumble brass shot in two Savage bolt action rifles including a .223 in addition to the 6mmbr. I have no other guns that I regularly shoot.

I think I'll start avoiding tumbling after every use and instead just clean the cases manually after shooting and going to the tumbler maybe every third or fourth use. I did order a Wilson trimmer so as not to have to worry about pilots not fitting but I will continue to do an outside chamfer before re-sizing in the my bushing die. I did so last night on 50 just cleaned cases and it didn't add a lot of time to the process. The Sinclair chamfering tool holder driven by my electric screwdriver is a great time/hand saver.

Al

 

[jlow]

Not a problem. A better search term would be preening.

I have gone through the same problen and that solution found by Bradley
walker does complete solve the problem i.e. use 2x amont of media, less brass, amd less time, Basically this reduce the brass to brass collusion and speed up the cleaning does the trick.

 

[Killshot]

Actually Preening is something metrosexuals and teenaged girls do....what's happening is Peening.

I find the number one cause of it is the cases banging into one another. And it is worse with the larger, heavier cases. If it concerns you, use less brass in each run.

But really, I don't find it difficult to chamfer the inside and outside of the casemouth after cleaning and annealing, prior to resizing. Just part of case prep.

Bolt-gun or Gas-gun it isn't the outside of the case or how they look that matters, the SS media allows you to load clean cases with the same interior capacity and clean necks for bullet seating/neck tension consistency every time. I don't buy for a second that neck tension/bullet release is better using cases with burned carbon or dry graphite in the necks. My own testing bears this out.

 

[AusFclass]

Sleepygator is correct, as I try unsuccessfully to point the OP to the previous thread (and you can find much more in depth info if you use the search function as this has been discussed in detailed more than once), tumble too long, too many cases, and not enough SS media.

it wasn't unsuccessful. I did look at that post. In the past, when using the search function on many forums, I've found that searching for "stainless tumbling damaging brass" would give results for "stainless" and every other word in the search term, so that's why I didn't bother. Thanks for your help though (everyone's actually). I'll be doing some experimentation with shorter times with smaller amounts of brass. I bought the kit from STM so I do use the Lemishine.

I tumble brass shot in two Savage bolt action rifles including a .223 in addition to the 6mmbr. I have no other guns that I regularly shoot.

I think I'll start avoiding tumbling after every use and instead just clean the cases manually after shooting and going to the tumbler maybe every third or fourth use. I did order a Wilson trimmer so as not to have to worry about pilots not fitting but I will continue to do an outside chamfer before re-sizing in the my bushing die. I did so last night on 50 just cleaned cases and it didn't add a lot of time to the process. The Sinclair chamfering tool holder driven by my electric screwdriver is a great time/hand saver.

Al

If you can't fit at trimmer mandrel inside the case there is no way id be bothering seating a bullet in there!!! What do you think that deformed case mouth is going to do to the bullet jacket??

 

[benjamin199]

I use the stainless media on my 6 dasher brass. I put a small squirt of dishwashing liquid and a sprinkle of lemi shine in with the brass with water about 1/2' from the top of the drum. I wash 50 cases at one time for 30 minutes, they come out clean. I do get a few small dings on the necks, but they don't seem to affect my accuracy. I use this method for all of my F-class match brass.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Actually Preening is something metrosexuals and teenaged girls do....what's happening is Peening.

Best. Line. Ever.

 

[dickn52]

Actually Preening is something metrosexuals and teenaged girls do....what's happening is Peening.

Best. Line. Ever.

Why are we talking about potty training now? Hunnn never mind I missed the "n".

 

[jlow]

Actually Preening is something metrosexuals and teenaged girls do....what's happening is Peening.

Best. Line. Ever.

Why are we talking about potty training now? Hunnn never mind I missed the "n".

LOL!

 

[Cleftwynd]

In my experience, 5 lbs SS media isn't enough to tumble with in the first place, unless you are only cleaning 20 ACP brass. After evaluating the brass/SS ratio is appeared to me there was much more brass vs brass action than desired. I now use 8lbs for small batches and 10 lbs for larger batches and have almost eliminated the case mouth deformation.


Just my $0.02!

PS: I know the thumblers has a 15 lb limit but mine has handled the extra load for a few years running it that heavy.

 

[bigedp51]

Actually Preening is something metrosexuals and teenaged girls do....what's happening is Peening.

That comment could be very insulting, how do you know jlow isn't Chinese?

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Actually Preening is something metrosexuals and teenaged girls do....what's happening is Peening.

That comment could be very insulting, how do you know jlow isn't Chinese?

Huh? WTF would being Chinese have to do with that comment?