butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
What problems are you going to run into? I want good info, not an inexperienced guess. I can do that.
SS pins method to clean loaded ammo
- Thread starter butchlambert
- Start date
Well, I have been using this method for two years so I have some real live actual non-guess experience. Here is my take on it....
1. It absolutely cleans without damaging or changing the dimensions of the case.
2. If you use the Lemi-Shine stuff the brass will stay bright and clean for a long time {which is a good selling point.}
3. Sometimes I get two pins stuck in the primer flash hole. When this happens they need to be pushed out with a small punch. This causes me to have to do a quick visual look at each case to make sure they are clear. About the worse that could happen is I could break a primer punch pin on my die if I miss one. Some guys have suggested I buy "big enough" pins that it cannot do this, but I don't know where to get them, and the ones I have work fine. If I go to bigger pins I don't know if they will clean way down in the corners of the primer pocket as good, and i like what I have now in this regard. It's not as if it happens to a lot of cases to make it an inconvenience...maybe one out of 100 will need to be punched.
4. Many guys say they have trouble with pins sticking inside the cases. I have never seen this happen with my set up. Not even one time and I have, no B.S. cleaned in excess of 20,000 cases. I have a few guys on the local base get me range brass by the 5 gallon bucket. Not saying it cant happen, but I have never seen it. They claim, and I am sure if it does happen, the pin will ruin a barrel if it gets all the way to the point it's in a loaded round and fired. Again, a quick visual down in each case will cure this problem. They are so bright and clean inside at this point it is no problem easily seeing a pin if it is stuck.
5. When I finish running a batch I drain the dirty gray water right in my sink and refill with clean. I might do this twice to get as much of the gray water gone so it is now clear and free of suds. I take the cases out about 4 or 5 at a time and shake them under the water {which is of course still in the tumbler} allowing the pins to fall free of each case. This sounds like a time consuming pain but it really does not take that long. Once I get all the cases out of the tumbler tank and free of the pins I put them in one of those case spinner things to spin off as much remaining water left on the cases. I spread them out on a towel and begin to do a visual of each case to make sure they are free of pins and also to find any defective cases I don't want to waste any more time on. They are then allowed to dry. If I am in a hurry either the oven or some rubbing alcohol speeds things up.
6. I use a Thumler's Tumbler Model B {for the required or better speed} and fill it to within one inch of the top with hot water. I add a squirt of that blue Dawn liquid dish soap and about a teaspoon of the Lemi-Shine. Seal her up and run for 4 hours {if the cases are really nasty} 2 hours if they are ones that have been cleaned and I am just going to reload.
7. Many guys claim that the whistle clean necks grip the bullet differently than a case that is carboned up from being fired. It does have a different feel {for lack of a better way of describing it} than a fired case when you seat the bullet. I either seat the bullets with a little {very little} smear of Imperial on my fingers or even better is to use some graphite or mica. No doubt this has already cost somebody a world record, but at my level of shooting I cannot discern any accuracy difference and I don't see anything notable on the chrono either.
8. Just for the heck of it, when I first started out, I had a 308 case that I put in every batch of cases I clean to see if it changed dimensional wise. It never did in roughly half of the cases I ran and so i quit checking.
9. I cannot find where it changes the anneal any either, your cases are either soft or need it and the tumbler method does not seem to affect this.
10. You can get a little bit of "edge peening" going on at the case mouth, but I believe this happens worse when guys resize and trim first and then tumble. I have seen it but it does not affect me one bit because I punch out the primers, tumble first and then do the rest of the operations for loading. many guys prep cases first and then tumble which works fine either way.
11. Because I have so many cases to clean and sell other than the ones I load and shoot, that just makes it all the more reason to clean this way. It is really unbelievable to see just how beautiful and shiny the cases come out after being picked up off the ground and turned all nasty and brown. They really do look better than new cases. Point being, yes, you can get by with just a good chemical cleaning if you are just loading a few hundred brand new cases to shoot for yourself. Probably hard to justify this setup if that is the extent of your needs...but you will forget all about the cost the first time you throw in some really dirty cases and open it up to see all those bright shiny gleaming once dead cases!!!
I got my pins from Midway. You should find the Lemi-Shine at Wal-mart or Target. Any questions, or if there is a particular aspect of this process you would like to see in photos posted here please don't hesitate to scream at me.
1. It absolutely cleans without damaging or changing the dimensions of the case.
2. If you use the Lemi-Shine stuff the brass will stay bright and clean for a long time {which is a good selling point.}
3. Sometimes I get two pins stuck in the primer flash hole. When this happens they need to be pushed out with a small punch. This causes me to have to do a quick visual look at each case to make sure they are clear. About the worse that could happen is I could break a primer punch pin on my die if I miss one. Some guys have suggested I buy "big enough" pins that it cannot do this, but I don't know where to get them, and the ones I have work fine. If I go to bigger pins I don't know if they will clean way down in the corners of the primer pocket as good, and i like what I have now in this regard. It's not as if it happens to a lot of cases to make it an inconvenience...maybe one out of 100 will need to be punched.
4. Many guys say they have trouble with pins sticking inside the cases. I have never seen this happen with my set up. Not even one time and I have, no B.S. cleaned in excess of 20,000 cases. I have a few guys on the local base get me range brass by the 5 gallon bucket. Not saying it cant happen, but I have never seen it. They claim, and I am sure if it does happen, the pin will ruin a barrel if it gets all the way to the point it's in a loaded round and fired. Again, a quick visual down in each case will cure this problem. They are so bright and clean inside at this point it is no problem easily seeing a pin if it is stuck.
5. When I finish running a batch I drain the dirty gray water right in my sink and refill with clean. I might do this twice to get as much of the gray water gone so it is now clear and free of suds. I take the cases out about 4 or 5 at a time and shake them under the water {which is of course still in the tumbler} allowing the pins to fall free of each case. This sounds like a time consuming pain but it really does not take that long. Once I get all the cases out of the tumbler tank and free of the pins I put them in one of those case spinner things to spin off as much remaining water left on the cases. I spread them out on a towel and begin to do a visual of each case to make sure they are free of pins and also to find any defective cases I don't want to waste any more time on. They are then allowed to dry. If I am in a hurry either the oven or some rubbing alcohol speeds things up.
6. I use a Thumler's Tumbler Model B {for the required or better speed} and fill it to within one inch of the top with hot water. I add a squirt of that blue Dawn liquid dish soap and about a teaspoon of the Lemi-Shine. Seal her up and run for 4 hours {if the cases are really nasty} 2 hours if they are ones that have been cleaned and I am just going to reload.
7. Many guys claim that the whistle clean necks grip the bullet differently than a case that is carboned up from being fired. It does have a different feel {for lack of a better way of describing it} than a fired case when you seat the bullet. I either seat the bullets with a little {very little} smear of Imperial on my fingers or even better is to use some graphite or mica. No doubt this has already cost somebody a world record, but at my level of shooting I cannot discern any accuracy difference and I don't see anything notable on the chrono either.
8. Just for the heck of it, when I first started out, I had a 308 case that I put in every batch of cases I clean to see if it changed dimensional wise. It never did in roughly half of the cases I ran and so i quit checking.
9. I cannot find where it changes the anneal any either, your cases are either soft or need it and the tumbler method does not seem to affect this.
10. You can get a little bit of "edge peening" going on at the case mouth, but I believe this happens worse when guys resize and trim first and then tumble. I have seen it but it does not affect me one bit because I punch out the primers, tumble first and then do the rest of the operations for loading. many guys prep cases first and then tumble which works fine either way.
11. Because I have so many cases to clean and sell other than the ones I load and shoot, that just makes it all the more reason to clean this way. It is really unbelievable to see just how beautiful and shiny the cases come out after being picked up off the ground and turned all nasty and brown. They really do look better than new cases. Point being, yes, you can get by with just a good chemical cleaning if you are just loading a few hundred brand new cases to shoot for yourself. Probably hard to justify this setup if that is the extent of your needs...but you will forget all about the cost the first time you throw in some really dirty cases and open it up to see all those bright shiny gleaming once dead cases!!!
I got my pins from Midway. You should find the Lemi-Shine at Wal-mart or Target. Any questions, or if there is a particular aspect of this process you would like to see in photos posted here please don't hesitate to scream at me.
Tumbling, esp vibratory, might remove retardant on powder granules or alter kernel shape. Burn rate might be excessive...BOOM! This could be a serious situation if powder is slow burning...the retardant is partly responsible for slower burn rate. Pull bullets (Hornady collet) dump then clean.
I would occasionally get pins stuck in the mouth, but only on 6.5 cartridges. 6mm/30/223 never got stuck. I have never had them stuck in flash-holes either. There are quite a few different lengths/widths of SS media, I think it will depend on where you source them from. I have not gotten rid of my walnut tumbler, but it very rarely gets used.
I had a barrel that didn't want to shoot anymore and I was convinced the SS tumbling was ruining the brass. I did a lot of testing and measuring of the brass before and after, then did them same from walnut tumbled brass. It was really all in my head (not much room in there either). I will say that I am not shooting the accuracy of some of you guys. I shoot field/tactical/PMS type matches. Our brass is almost always picked out of the dirt. However, I have a few friends that have been using SS/Thumblers for years and really do shoot razor's-edge accuracy.
Hope it helps.
Peter
I had a barrel that didn't want to shoot anymore and I was convinced the SS tumbling was ruining the brass. I did a lot of testing and measuring of the brass before and after, then did them same from walnut tumbled brass. It was really all in my head (not much room in there either). I will say that I am not shooting the accuracy of some of you guys. I shoot field/tactical/PMS type matches. Our brass is almost always picked out of the dirt. However, I have a few friends that have been using SS/Thumblers for years and really do shoot razor's-edge accuracy.
Hope it helps.
Peter
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
Definitely clouds the mental acuity. Hope you feel better soon. Get that flu shot next year!
Hey guys, Butch is asking about LOADED AMMO, not brass.
Well, I have no excuse...I aint sick at all. I guess my only comment at this time is that I totally missed the words "loaded ammo." It's hard for me to believe, let alone someone admitting.....to either wanting to, or actually putting live loaded ammo in a bucket of water and tumbling it in stainless pins?????? just to clean the outside????? Live ammo under water aside, I mean, how bad can loaded ammo get and still be something you really need to clean up that way and try to shoot??????
Nooooooooooo.......................There has to be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooomething I am missing here.......otherwise, I am afraid I cannot help you on this one. I guess I've just never been placed in a position where I absolutely had to shoot this GD bad!!!!! I wouldn't consider this if a pack of rabid werewolves were after me and all I had was a puked up batch of silver bullet ammo!!!! They'll back up from a chainsaw!!!
Edit: the next thing you know...Butch will be on here telling us all how great Lothar Walther barrels are!!!!! These are strange days we're livin' bros!!!!!
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Every vibratory and tumbler manufacturer that markets these products specifically for the reloading industry state in their owners manual NOT to use live ammo in their products. The ammo factories may do it, but it is for a very short duration and the onus is on them for any harm that would result.
OP No, Do NOT Wet Tumble Loaded Ammo. The reasons are numerous and easy to find the down sides.
If you want to cleanup loaded ammo, a short vibratory tumble in either corncob or walnut shell, with a dash of Nu-Finish Car Polish will do the trick. I "vibe" tumble all of my ammo once loaded. That goes for everything from .380 ACP through 50 BMG Match Ammo.
I have extensively tested my ammo, across a chronograph and the vibratory tumble has ZERO Affect to a loaded round, in my testing. I tumble them for no longer than 30 minutes, usually about 15 minutes.
If you want to cleanup loaded ammo, a short vibratory tumble in either corncob or walnut shell, with a dash of Nu-Finish Car Polish will do the trick. I "vibe" tumble all of my ammo once loaded. That goes for everything from .380 ACP through 50 BMG Match Ammo.
I have extensively tested my ammo, across a chronograph and the vibratory tumble has ZERO Affect to a loaded round, in my testing. I tumble them for no longer than 30 minutes, usually about 15 minutes.
chuckshooter
Silver $$ Contributor
I inherited close to twenty thousand rounds of 22rf that has been stored in a wood shed that termites and water had destroyed.. I tried various methods of cleaning before I decided what the heck. I put a hundred rounds in the tumbler with the stainless steel pins and clean as a whistle. I pulled apart a dozen or so no damage to the powder. I fired a dozen or so they all fire fine ..only concern I have was I lost the lube. . Still might be a tiny bit of Lube on the bullet where it is seated in the brass. But if I fire too many in a row I'm afraid I'll lead the barrel. Anyway moral of the story is I have many gallon bags full of 22 rim fire that I can shoot. I honestly believe there's nothing wrong with wet tumbling loaded ammo. Of course there will the people concerned about safty that are going to say no. If I ever see a post where somebody blew up their Tumblr I might change my mind
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I think Butch is trolling us! 
It only takes one bad incident happening, to make it that maybe you don't ever have another. Matt
There is a big difference between vibratory cleaning and tumbling. I vibrate a lot of loaded ammo too. I've been doing, just like the rest of the world, since about 1986 or so...but you can best believe I have and will never tumble any loaded ammo...wet or dry. Better to be safe 100 times than dead once.
And when done tumbling to dry them quicker throw them in your Dryer.Oh wait never mind thats a bad idea. LOL
Just funnin Butch but, sarcasm can be fun.
21shooter
Site $$ Sponsor
Hi Butch, Stainless steel pins work with about a gal.of water..the water keeps the brass from banging
into each other sorta!. (I suggest all shooters going to the worlds clean there loaded ammo with this method)LOL....JUST KIDDING NEVER TUMBLE LOADED ROUNDS
But seriously I use SS pins on fired brass BUT I ONLY TUMBLE 30-45min.this keeps
peening to a minimum.........John
into each other sorta!. (I suggest all shooters going to the worlds clean there loaded ammo with this method)LOL....JUST KIDDING
NEVER TUMBLE LOADED ROUNDS But seriously I use SS pins on fired brass BUT I ONLY TUMBLE 30-45min.this keepspeening to a minimum.........John
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butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Ain't trolling and only wanted comments from those that had done it. Didn't want a lot of what ifs. You might know I considered all of the what ifs.
I have 5 boxes of 30-40 Krag that is at least 75yrs old. Think of how nasty they are and triple it.
I have 5 boxes of 30-40 Krag that is at least 75yrs old. Think of how nasty they are and triple it.
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