Spotting scopes
- Thread starter dawe11
- Start date
Dale,
The best thing you can do is go to several matches and see what others are using. Most people if you ask are quite happy to let you look through and talk about their scopes. Individual preferences vary, so the more you look the better idea you'll have as to what you want in a scope.
Reviews are helpful, but remember they are just one mans opinion. I would never buy any optics based on reviews alone, not to mention there's one heck of a difference trying to resolve bullet holes as opposed to bird watching. Compare scopes at Matches during the same conditions, you'll soon see which are the better ones.
Lastly, there is no free lunch, you get what you pay for in optics. There's a lot to be said for the "Buy once, cry once" way of thinking. I went through three other scopes, each more expensive than the last before I settled on what I have now, but even that could change when something better comes along.
You're better off saving for awhile longer if you have to than buying something that's less expensive "Just to make do", and save a couple of bucks.
Danny
The best thing you can do is go to several matches and see what others are using. Most people if you ask are quite happy to let you look through and talk about their scopes. Individual preferences vary, so the more you look the better idea you'll have as to what you want in a scope.
Reviews are helpful, but remember they are just one mans opinion. I would never buy any optics based on reviews alone, not to mention there's one heck of a difference trying to resolve bullet holes as opposed to bird watching. Compare scopes at Matches during the same conditions, you'll soon see which are the better ones.
Lastly, there is no free lunch, you get what you pay for in optics. There's a lot to be said for the "Buy once, cry once" way of thinking. I went through three other scopes, each more expensive than the last before I settled on what I have now, but even that could change when something better comes along.
You're better off saving for awhile longer if you have to than buying something that's less expensive "Just to make do", and save a couple of bucks.
Danny
I gotta agree and disagree with Danny on this one. The disagree part first: I think the birders are a great source of info as they are probably more demanding on resolution than we are. They need to resolve the sometimes quite fine details of a bird in order to differentiate the species. They also spend far more time looking through their scopes than target shooters typically do.
I strongly agree with Danny on the rest of his points, however: Don't go cheap with optics and don't believe people who say their $300 scope is every bit as good as a #2000 high-end scope. You really do get what you pay for. You may not see much difference with a few minutes of comparison in the store, but you'll see it pretty fast out in the world when you're trying to really use it for a purpose. It doesn't matter if you're spotting game, trying to see bullet holes, or trying to resolve the mirage, you'll see better with the high-end scope.
When you start comparing high-end scopes, individual preferences and intended use really come into play. Since resolution is generally equal, things like color rendition and perceived brightness become major factors. You really need to look through them for an extended period to decide what you like. That's why Danny's suggestion of going to matches is so important--it's an opportunity to sit and look through them in the world under probably less than perfect conditions. You really don't want to buy a good scope based just on reviews.
robert
I strongly agree with Danny on the rest of his points, however: Don't go cheap with optics and don't believe people who say their $300 scope is every bit as good as a #2000 high-end scope. You really do get what you pay for. You may not see much difference with a few minutes of comparison in the store, but you'll see it pretty fast out in the world when you're trying to really use it for a purpose. It doesn't matter if you're spotting game, trying to see bullet holes, or trying to resolve the mirage, you'll see better with the high-end scope.
When you start comparing high-end scopes, individual preferences and intended use really come into play. Since resolution is generally equal, things like color rendition and perceived brightness become major factors. You really need to look through them for an extended period to decide what you like. That's why Danny's suggestion of going to matches is so important--it's an opportunity to sit and look through them in the world under probably less than perfect conditions. You really don't want to buy a good scope based just on reviews.
robert
Robert,
I agree with you, true hard core "Birders" definately are demanding in their optics.
I guess I should have said for novices like most of us looking at a bird in a tree a couple of hundred yards away it would probably be difficult to judge the merits of a two thousand dollar scope verses lets say a thousand dollar scope. They both might look pretty darn good. Naturally if you were comparing either one to a two hundred dollar scope the difference looking at most everything would be apparent. Take those scopes to the range and compare them on targets that had been shot I think the difference would be much more pronounced.
We haven't even touched on eyepieces which can make a HUGE difference even within the same scope. This is another subject which muddies the water even more. You have to try to make the right decision the first time since at $350 a pop for good eyepieces it's kind of tough just buying new ones to experiment.
So Dale when you're at the range comparing scopes make sure you jot down which brand and type of eyepiece that they are using.
Good luck!
Danny
I agree with you, true hard core "Birders" definately are demanding in their optics.
I guess I should have said for novices like most of us looking at a bird in a tree a couple of hundred yards away it would probably be difficult to judge the merits of a two thousand dollar scope verses lets say a thousand dollar scope. They both might look pretty darn good. Naturally if you were comparing either one to a two hundred dollar scope the difference looking at most everything would be apparent. Take those scopes to the range and compare them on targets that had been shot I think the difference would be much more pronounced.
We haven't even touched on eyepieces which can make a HUGE difference even within the same scope. This is another subject which muddies the water even more. You have to try to make the right decision the first time since at $350 a pop for good eyepieces it's kind of tough just buying new ones to experiment.
So Dale when you're at the range comparing scopes make sure you jot down which brand and type of eyepiece that they are using.
Good luck!
Danny
Fred Bohl
Gold $$ Contributor
dawell,
Danny and Robert are giving good advise on spotting scope quality considerations. However, from your last post, if your "main interest is to be able to see 6mm bullet holes at 300 yds under most conditions", you do not need more than a modest spotting scope/eyepiece.
Unless you are shooting open or aperture sights, any target rifle scope suitable for 300 yard target use should be capable of meeting your requirements without the need for a spotting scope. We could give more appropriate suggestions if you would please describe the type of shooting you are doing or other needs such as spotting for another shooter.
Danny and Robert are giving good advise on spotting scope quality considerations. However, from your last post, if your "main interest is to be able to see 6mm bullet holes at 300 yds under most conditions", you do not need more than a modest spotting scope/eyepiece.
Unless you are shooting open or aperture sights, any target rifle scope suitable for 300 yard target use should be capable of meeting your requirements without the need for a spotting scope. We could give more appropriate suggestions if you would please describe the type of shooting you are doing or other needs such as spotting for another shooter.
Dale,
As Fred said a 12-42 Nightforce would fit the bill nicely.
However for a spotting scope for 300 yard work I'd definitely give the Pentax PF80-ED with the 20-60 eyepiece the nod as being a "Best Buy". They can be bought pretty reasonable from various sources. gr8fuldoug who advertises on E-bay and sometimes here is a good source at a very competitive price.
Danny
As Fred said a 12-42 Nightforce would fit the bill nicely.
However for a spotting scope for 300 yard work I'd definitely give the Pentax PF80-ED with the 20-60 eyepiece the nod as being a "Best Buy". They can be bought pretty reasonable from various sources. gr8fuldoug who advertises on E-bay and sometimes here is a good source at a very competitive price.
Danny
Fred Bohl
Gold $$ Contributor
Dale,
Now it is making sense. With NBRSA Hunter Benchrest limited to 6x scopes you definitely need a very good spotting scope.
If it is in your budget range, then Danny's suggestion should be good to 300 yards for all but he worst mirage and air quality conditions. You may also want to try or at least consider a fixed 5mm eyepiece for more clarity and the 78x as you may find the 60x max of the 20x to 60x zoom marginal at 300 yards.
Now it is making sense. With NBRSA Hunter Benchrest limited to 6x scopes you definitely need a very good spotting scope.
If it is in your budget range, then Danny's suggestion should be good to 300 yards for all but he worst mirage and air quality conditions. You may also want to try or at least consider a fixed 5mm eyepiece for more clarity and the 78x as you may find the 60x max of the 20x to 60x zoom marginal at 300 yards.
Fred Bohl
Gold $$ Contributor
Dale,
Danny and Robert are better qualified to advise you on the traditional,over $1000) spotting scopes.
I will throw in my two cents for another option. If you are using the proposed spotting scope for spotting your own targets primarily at 100, 200 and 300 yards and possibly observing others targets between your relays, don't spend so much on a prestige spotting scope. I would suggest the following:
Celestron C90 Maksutov spotting scope,$180 at optcorp.com)
Vixen NLV 25mm eyepiece for 48x,$159 at optcorp.com)
Vixen NLV 20mm eyepiece for 60x,$159 at optcorp.com)
Vixen NLV 12mm eyepiece for 100x,$149 at optcorp.com)
Celestron Heavy Duty Alt-AZ tripod,$90 at optcorp.com) - for observing
Sinclair Bench/Scope Stand 60-3200,$120 at Sinclair)
ScopeTronix Visual Back STVB,$30 at scopetronics.com) - for using eyepieces at the back port - gives best clarity but upside down and reversed image
This setup will give even more useful target images,IMHO) for a total of $767 including both ground tripod and bench clamp mount and three very good eyepieces.
Lest you think I'm cheap about optics, I do own two March scopes but prefer to think of myself as frugal. I will spend what is required for the required task performance but not any more for the prestige label.
Danny and Robert are better qualified to advise you on the traditional,over $1000) spotting scopes.
I will throw in my two cents for another option. If you are using the proposed spotting scope for spotting your own targets primarily at 100, 200 and 300 yards and possibly observing others targets between your relays, don't spend so much on a prestige spotting scope. I would suggest the following:
Celestron C90 Maksutov spotting scope,$180 at optcorp.com)
Vixen NLV 25mm eyepiece for 48x,$159 at optcorp.com)
Vixen NLV 20mm eyepiece for 60x,$159 at optcorp.com)
Vixen NLV 12mm eyepiece for 100x,$149 at optcorp.com)
Celestron Heavy Duty Alt-AZ tripod,$90 at optcorp.com) - for observing
Sinclair Bench/Scope Stand 60-3200,$120 at Sinclair)
ScopeTronix Visual Back STVB,$30 at scopetronics.com) - for using eyepieces at the back port - gives best clarity but upside down and reversed image
This setup will give even more useful target images,IMHO) for a total of $767 including both ground tripod and bench clamp mount and three very good eyepieces.
Lest you think I'm cheap about optics, I do own two March scopes but prefer to think of myself as frugal. I will spend what is required for the required task performance but not any more for the prestige label.
If your only purpose is to shoot from the bench and you're only trying to see bullet holes at that 300 yards or less, I'd strongly consider Fred's advice.
I'm a bit skeptical about the suggestion of the angled Leica. Since I've never set up a spotting scope at the bench for competition, take this for what it's worth, but I'd think that a clamp-on stand with a straight eyepiece would be the way to go. You'd want to be able to set the scope up so that you wouldnt have to move your head very far to look through the scope. Since you're sitting relatively upright at the bench, an angled eyepiece would likely be a bit of a pain.
Are you getting the opinions at a local store or from individuals? If you have a store and they're willing, take a couple of candidate scopes outside. Find a line of sight where you have a clear view and then focus the scope on any mirage that you can pick up. Through a good scope, you should be able to see the texture of the mirage, not just a blurry image. The better the scope, the more detailed the mirage will be. It's hard to discern the differences between scopes just looking at regular objects. It's pretty easy when you're trying to focus on mirage.
I'm slowly making my way back to High Power competition, so seeing the details in the mirage is critical for me--no wind probes, daisy wheels, etc. allowed. However, when I do finally get my Service Rifle shooting and make my way back to a match, it'll be with my old Kowa TSN-1 until I get a chance to look through some more recent models. The Kowa Prominars would probably be the first on my list to look at just for the good, long-eye-relief eyepiece--a critical bit for High Power and something that seems to be lacking for many of the other brands. The Kowas are also pretty highly rated,and priced it would seem).
I'm a bit skeptical about the suggestion of the angled Leica. Since I've never set up a spotting scope at the bench for competition, take this for what it's worth, but I'd think that a clamp-on stand with a straight eyepiece would be the way to go. You'd want to be able to set the scope up so that you wouldnt have to move your head very far to look through the scope. Since you're sitting relatively upright at the bench, an angled eyepiece would likely be a bit of a pain.
Are you getting the opinions at a local store or from individuals? If you have a store and they're willing, take a couple of candidate scopes outside. Find a line of sight where you have a clear view and then focus the scope on any mirage that you can pick up. Through a good scope, you should be able to see the texture of the mirage, not just a blurry image. The better the scope, the more detailed the mirage will be. It's hard to discern the differences between scopes just looking at regular objects. It's pretty easy when you're trying to focus on mirage.
I'm slowly making my way back to High Power competition, so seeing the details in the mirage is critical for me--no wind probes, daisy wheels, etc. allowed. However, when I do finally get my Service Rifle shooting and make my way back to a match, it'll be with my old Kowa TSN-1 until I get a chance to look through some more recent models. The Kowa Prominars would probably be the first on my list to look at just for the good, long-eye-relief eyepiece--a critical bit for High Power and something that seems to be lacking for many of the other brands. The Kowas are also pretty highly rated,and priced it would seem).
Similar threads
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.