Spotting scopes - Budget gear even with the effort?

[Danno]

For me, cheap was a waste of money, and I w/h/b better off going straight to what I finally settled on - Leupold 12-40x60 "Gold Ring". Picked it up used on dBay for about $600.

In the matches I shoot I frequently use other shooters' S-scopes, everything from the worst to the very best made. NONE of them can be counted on to see even 30-cal holes on paper at 600 yards. You are much better off spending your money on a target camera or an electronic target.

Even some expensive S-scopes have very minimal eye-relief, which makes them difficult if not impossible to look through with your shooting glasses on. The first time I looked thru one of the 12-40x60 Leupolds I fell in love, mainly due to generous eye-relief but also with the very clear, bright picture. I look thru $1,200 - 1,500 scopes all the time that no more clear, and that are dark and hard to look thru compared to the little Leupy.

You need angled if you want to shoot your rifle prone or on a bench and then rotate your head and look thru a S-scope. I never do that because if I can't see the hole with the NF on my rifle I'm not going to be able to see it with any S-scope.

What I need a S-scope for is spotting for others at LR -- either watching his bullets fly downrange to help them get on target, watching where their bullet hits on the steel, or seeing what markers the guy in the pit put on their target. I am either standing or sitting at a bench, so my straight Leupy works great. For sitting at a bench and spotting, which I do a lot of, I prefer straight to angled. In none of those things do I need an expensive spotting scope.

If I was bird-watching I'd buy a Swaro in a heartbeat. They are incredible to look thru. But for the spotting I do, I just don't need it. I wouldn't be able to see holes at even 500 yards half the time anyway.

But I do want to be able to see holes at 300 yards on a nice cool day, and the Leupy works fine for that.

Hello, I currently shoot 1000 yds and just recently entered my first competition. I do not have a spotting scope and I am looking to purchase a Leupold GR 20-60x80mm Spotting Scope. Do you think the impact reticle would be the better option over the standard reticle ? Thank you !

 

[KY_Windage]

Hello, I currently shoot 1000 yds and just recently entered my first competition. I do not have a spotting scope and I am looking to purchase a Leupold GR 20-60x80mm Spotting Scope. Do you think the impact reticle would be the better option over the standard reticle ? Thank you !

I can find a picture of the "impact reticle" but not the "standard," so I cannot even guess. My old 12-40 has no reticle at all. In the rare cases when I need to range for someone else I just put my scope on it and range with it.

 

[Danno]

I can find a picture of the "impact reticle" but not the "standard," so I cannot even guess. My old 12-40 has no reticle at all. In the rare cases when I need to range for someone else I just put my scope on it and range with it.

The Impact reticle incorporates the MOA measurement system, with a grid style pattern and it also features 1 MOA hash marks on horizontal and vertical posts

 

[Danno]

I can find a picture of the "impact reticle" but not the "standard," so I cannot even guess. My old 12-40 has no reticle at all. In the rare cases when I need to range for someone else I just put my scope on it and range with it.

Thank you for your response

 

[KY_Windage]

The Impact reticle incorporates the MOA measurement system, with a grid style pattern and it also features 1 MOA hash marks on horizontal and vertical posts

I found that one. What is the "standard" like? And is it also FFP? If you want a spotting scope for ranging I would assume you would want it to be FFP. $300 seems a lot just for a different reticle. It sounds more like the difference between SFP and FFP.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

I can make out my bullet holes more often than not at 600. Just this morning I saw individual holes on almost every shot. 6 and 7 mm, 30 cal. Maybe because I have white targets and it’s not hot or humid? Nightforce and Leupold rifle scopes at 32,35,42 power. Must just be my environment? My eyes aren’t special. If my barrel gets hot the holes get wavy and fade in and out. Who knows.....

 

[Artisan]

Yeah, that's not quite right. If you think of a telescope, you have two basic types; reflector (straight) and refractor (has a 90 degree offset eyepiece.) Both of these have the image flipped, right to left and top to bottom. The refractor has few lenses.

But when you are talking about a spotting scope, angled or straight, one of its main feature is that the image is flipped for you and so you see it right side up and with proper left and right. This flipping is done by an erector lens assembly, just like in a rifle scope. In an angled spotting scope, the image flipping is done by the prism that also points the image in another direction. In a straight scope, the erector lenses are placed just like in a riflescope. There is also the short straight spotting scope where the objective is not in direct line with the ocular lens. This format uses a pair of porro lenses to flip the image and it's done so as to increase the focal length of the spotting scope yet retain a smaller format. So the number of lens elements and prisms is not of concern when trying to differentiate the two types.

To the OP's point, I have never seen bullet holes at 500-800 yards with a spotting scope. Any spotting scope. I would not even try unless the target was black and the sun was shining behind the target.

A third type of telescope you may want to investigate is a "MAK" (Maksutov-Cassegrain).
Again what yardage are you using it at. This design corrects the problem of "off-axis aberrations" such as coma-aberrations, found in reflecting telescopes, also correcting chromatic aberrations. One just needs to match the correct size eye-piece, for the intended yardage. Many eye-pieces (oculars) today have 4, 6 or more elements. The Mak telescopes are small and compact. You will need a sturdy tripod and maybe even a counter-weight. The diagonal is what flips the view and can be sized for 1.25" or 2" oculars and with either a 90 or 45 degree angle, for better viewing. Get a ring adapter for (my wife's Canon digital camera) a camera mount and you can take pictures or videos, on top of viewing without having to look thru an eye-piece.
It could also open up a whole new sport. Looking for E.T.'s.
Here's a link if you want to really dive into long-range optics.

ASTRONOMY AND PHOTOGRAGHY ONLINE

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

A third type of telescope you may want to investigate is a "MAK" (Maksutov-Cassegrain).
Again what yardage are you using it at. This design corrects the problem of "off-axis aberrations" such as coma-aberrations, found in reflecting telescopes, also correcting chromatic aberrations. One just needs to match the correct size eye-piece, for the intended yardage. Many eye-pieces (oculars) today have 4, 6 or more elements. The Mak telescopes are small and compact. You will need a sturdy tripod and maybe even a counter-weight. The diagonal is what flips the view and can be sized for 1.25" or 2" oculars and with either a 90 or 45 degree angle, for better viewing. Get a ring adapter for (my wife's Canon digital camera) a camera mount and you can take pictures or videos, on top of viewing without having to look thru an eye-piece.
It could also open up a whole new sport. Looking for E.T.'s.
Here's a link if you want to really dive into long-range optics.

ASTRONOMY AND PHOTOGRAGHY ONLINE

Yeah, like the catadioptric Celestrons are serious spotting scopes.

 

[DGP4]

Wouldn't a system like this be a better option beyond 300 yards?

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[std7mag]

There is a reason targets are run and oversized markers are placed on the target.

I started off with a $40 Swift spotter. But my usage was more spotting game at distance, not bullet holes.
My main usage hasn't changed.
But that Swift spotter still wasn't up to snuff.
I upgraded to a $129 Celestron C70 Mini Mak.
Much better clarity, especially at lower light levels when spotting deer, elk & other game at 1,200 yards plus.
And with standard telescope sized eye piece, you can purchase different eye piece lenses for it, along with different color filters.
And super light weight for packing long distances away from the truck.

As for seeing bullet holes on targets.
On a low mirage day i can see 223 holes at 300 yards. (I haven't tried any further).
On a bad mirage day, i've seen scopes costing 10 times as much still not picking up 6mm holes at 400 yards.

The bigger the hole, the easier it is to see.
There is a huge difference between trying to spot .224 bullet hole & 7mm or 30 cal buller holes!