Spotting scope, high end old vs low end new?

[NY700]

So I'm in the market for a spotter. Primarily for reading mirage out to 1K and seeking Bullet trace.
A high dollar scope isn't in the cards right now but what I've come across are some reasonably priced older Kowa,Bausch &a Lomb and nikons. From the 70s 80s and early 90s

So will I see better performance out of a 25 year old kowa or a new konus or buschnell or red field?

 

[Erud]

Well, have you ever heard the saying "They sure don't make them like hey used to."? Personally, I'd take an older used Kowa over any of the others you mention.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Older Nikon and Kowa spotters had the best glass Japan could produce at the time. Today that old Japanese glass is still as good or better than any glass except for the top shelf fluorite HD glass found in top end spotters. Any old Kowas or Nikon fieldscopes will easily out perform any low end or mid priced spotter currently being produced. Especially any of the spotters you mentioned.

The new top end Kowa Prominar and Nikon EDG spotters currently being produced still use Japanese glass, but the quality of glass is much better with the addition of flourite and advancements in HD coatings.

 

[NY700]

Has anyone every had hands on experience with the Horus Hubble? 15-45x60 with the Horus h32 reticle

 

[Killick]

if you can find a used Kowa TSN-1 you will be happy as a tick. I bought one from a friend and had Kowa recondition it. It only cost $100 for the recon. job and it was as good as brand new.
Found a scope for you on Armslist. I saw top shooters using them at the Berger SWN this weekend.
http://www.armslist.com/posts/3000729/wichita-kansas-optics-for-sale--kowa-tsn-1-spotting-scope

 

[chkunz]

I have an old Unertl spotting scope with the 45 degree eye piece. It is about 50 mm and has the green body. This is a very compact scope and is not as heavy or bulky as some of the new scopes. It is almost as good as my much larger, heavier Kowa. It is a lot easier to pack and move around the range than the newer scopes. They have been out of production for a long time but if you can find one used it would be worth considering. I have it on a Ray Vin stand and the two work well together.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Has anyone every had hands on experience with the Horus Hubble? 15-45x60 with the Horus h32 reticle

Be willing to bet you can't find any reviews on Horus Hubble spotting scope glass for a reason. For $200 on a brand new spotting scope, I'm sure you'll get what you pay for.

 

[NY700]

Be willing to bet you can't find any reviews on Horus Hubble spotting scope glass for a reason. For $200 on a brand new spotting scope, I'm sure you'll get what you pay for.

Were they $200 new? I've seen them go for that used? Figured the h32 reticle was about a $200 option alone. Appears they are Japanese glass made by JOW

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Were they $200 new? I've seen them go for that used? Figured the h32 reticle was about a $200 option alone. Appears they are Japanese glass made by JOW

That's what they were going for on ebay when I looked them up. NIB. I've never been a fan of the small straight scopes. Leupold, busnell, and Bosh & Lomb used to make those style spotters. Not the best image. Zeiss still makes that style of spotter for the Dialyte model that sells for $1000 new, but even at that price, I wasn't very impressed with the image.

With all else being equal, the bigger the objective the better image you will have, especially on higher power settings. I used to have the Vortex Razor HD 16-48x65mm spotter and it was a sub-par image on 48x for the money spent, especially poor image in low light on higher powers. I now own the Cabelas Meopta S2 HD 20-70x82mm spotter. The image is absolutely stunning and it performs second to none in low light. Only the new Swarovski ATX can best it in low light when using the ATX 95mm objective, but that's because it has a 13mm advantage to gather more light. Even on a nice sunny day, you will notice that the larger objective spotters give you a much brighter and crisp image. The larger spotters aren't as convenient or easy to pack around, but I find that the superior image quality they deliver is worth dealing with the extra size and weight.

 

[hottshott526]

Don't forget about eye relief. If you're scoping from a prone position a long eye relief scope is way way easier to use than one that you have your eye crammed down on to be able to see.

My vote is for the Kowa with a 25x-27x long eye relief

It's all you will ever need

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Don't forget about eye relief. If you're scoping from a prone position a long eye relief scope is way way easier to use than one that you have your eye crammed down on to be able to see.

My vote is for the Kowa with a 25x-27x long eye relief

It's all you will ever need

Eye relief is definitely something to consider. Very good point.

The only thing I don't like about low power fixed scopes is that they don't do well for seeing holes in targets when long range load testing. From 60-70X with my Meopta, I can easily see 6mm holes in a target at 600 yards as long as I'm shooting early in the morning when there's very little or no mirage. I'm sure I could see them at farther ranges as well, but I haven't shot targets farther than that since I've owned the scope. Seeing holes at 300 yards is a walk in the park in any condition. Saves me a lot of leg or driving time so I can spend more time on the trigger.

 

[hottshott526]

I agree that any mirage will wreck/ inhibit the seeing of bullet holes beyond 300 yds. With that being said the better glass of an older high end scope will out do, in all aspects, a low end new scope.

I have seen 308 bullet holes @ 1000 yds with a Champions Choice 22x- 50mm scope BUT it was on an over cast dreary non mirage day and they were in the white area of the target.

 

[sfldiver]

I don't know much about older scopes, and you didn't indicate your budget for the scope. FYI - The best deal out there for a long eye relief eyepiece scope designed specifically for reading mirage at distance is the Celestron Regal scope with the long eye relief eyepiece. It runs about $579. It's not designed for high magnification viewing, because it only has a 27 magnification eyepiece, which is perfect for reading mirage at distance. The 32mm of eye relief is perfect for looking through the eyepiece with shooting glasses while shooting prone. I have one I use for F Class shooting and it's amazing. Here's a couple of links that describe the scope and show the deals available on it:

http://www.celestron.com/browse-sho...g-eye-relief-80mm-regal-m2-spotting-scope-kit

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IBIMGDC/?tag=accuratescom-20

 

[akajun]

as to an older Kowa, my buddy sent his old tsn-1 to kowa for a repair, it stopped focusing. They sent it back and told him that he just got the last of the parts for that scope. That was about 6-7 years ago.

The konus brand of scopes are pretty good for the money.

 

[NY700]

Right now I'm looking sub $300
I'm shooting steel and not worried about attempting to resolve Bullet holes at any significant distance. Primarily looking to read mirage out to1K and look for Bullet trace and splash

I'm looking at 2016 konus 80. Specifically the previous generation because there is a kowa eyepiece adapter on the market to us LER lenses

Or a Nikon field scope gen I or II or Pentax 30x60. All in the sub $300 range and if I can find one, lost one recently on eBay a kowa TsN1