Spotter - Kowa

[25AI260]

guys i've thought about getting a spotting scope for range use out to 500yrds.. would love to be able to see 22 caliber holes there about..
i came across the Kowa brand an thought it mite be top line stuff?... my question is would this size spotter be capable... an what is the difference
in the two .... one is ED lense ? ?
Kowa High Performace TSN-660-661 66mm TSN-660 with 20-60x Eyepiece TSE-Z9B
Kowa High Performace TSN-660-663 Angled ED TSN-663 w/ 20-60x Zoom Eyepiece TSE-Z9B

i may be looking into used spotters too, any recommendations ? either new or used ...

Thanks...

 

[clannagael]

Kowa is certainly top shelf. Just don't believe the people who tell you a .22 hole can't be seen beyond 300 yards. They can, I've used Nikon, Leupolds, and even Nightforce scopes that work. The most important factor on whether you can see them or not is contrast. Using yellow or amber glasses, your eyes, and different target types will affect how well you can see them, but they can be seen up to 600 yards.

If you want to learn the basics of scopes, spotting or otherwise, I can't think of a better explanation than Orion: http://www.telescope.com/control/category/~category_id=choose_sp_or_bino/~pcategory=lc-about-binoculars

 

[280man]

Target color and mirage has a lot to do with it. If you want to reliably see them you might think about one of the remote camera setups

 

[280man]

In my opinion the Kowa ED floriate coated scopes are as good or better than any scope on the market

 

[25AI260]

i use a 36X Weaver yes i can see holes a 300... 400 is very iffy depends on lite, heat waves... 500 forget it.. thus the reason for a spotter
i read the article at Orian.. still left with "not sure" the spotter 66 sound like a good deal but IF its not up to the task... it would be
[ i think ] harder to sell then the Kowa ? actually that orian is more in my price range... but the Kowa is do-able

i have found that yellow an day-glo green type paper helps to see them little holes
i didn't know E D was a lenses coating " floriate " thanks i guess its top of the line ?

thank for the replies i'm still open to suggestions an comments

 

[JDBraddy]

I own Kowa's, Vortex Razors, as well as some high end astronomical apochromatic refractors up to 152mm objective diameter. Even with such a scope, you can't reliably see bullet holes at 500yds, because of atmospheric limitations. If you want to see bullet holes at that distance you will have to use a camera system. Fortunately, there are very good ones now, that cost less than the price of a premium spotting scope.

 

[powderbrake]

I agree with JDBraddy. I have an 82mm Kowa, and a Questar 3.5" Telescope, and atmospheric limitations will limit both in what I can see at 500 yards, or even 300 yards.

A spotting scope is a very useful piece of shooting gear, and I recommend you have one, but even larger bullet holes may be obscured by mirage.

I recommend you consider a Shotmarker, https://www.autotrickler.com/shotmarker.html
Its usefulness in showing your bullet strike locations, and group info is invaluable in developing loads and in practice.

 

[dkhunt14]

i use a 36X Weaver yes i can see holes a 300... 400 is very iffy depends on lite, heat waves... 500 forget it.. thus the reason for a spotter
i read the article at Orian.. still left with "not sure" the spotter 66 sound like a good deal but IF its not up to the task... it would be
[ i think ] harder to sell then the Kowa ? actually that orian is more in my price range... but the Kowa is do-able

i have found that yellow an day-glo green type paper helps to see them little holes
i didn't know E D was a lenses coating " floriate " thanks i guess its top of the line ?

thank for the replies i'm still open to suggestions an comments

We compared regular Kowa to the same model with the ED lens. The only difference we saw was the colors were a little brighter with the ED lens. That and about 3,000 dollars difference. These were both a pair of Kowa Highlanders. 32x power and 82MM objectives. The Highlanders are as good as it gets in glass. Matt

 

[JEFFPPC]

Regardless of what brand you have if you have a zoom lens go to an astronomical single power wide angle lens and you will smile.I have an 85 Zeiss I recently did this with, marked improvement for spotting holes. I recently looked through a new Kowa with ED glass, impressive.

 

[NateHaler]

guys i've thought about getting a spotting scope for range use out to 500yrds.. would love to be able to see 22 caliber holes there about..

I suggest you change your expectations. Or use 'splatter' type targets exclusively and hope for the best. Or shoot a bigger caliber, e.g. .30 or larger. In the latter case, you shouldn't expect to see bullet holes in the aiming black of such targets at 500y.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Even with very high end spotting scopes, when the mirage comes up, it can be difficult, if not impossible to see .22 cal bullet holes at ~300 yd or farther. The worse the mirage is, the shorter the distance you will reliably be able to visualize the bullet holes. This is not an issue of the resolution or clarity of the spotting scope. It is an issue of mirage, rather than the scope itself, becoming the limiting source of error.

If you're wanting to spot .22 cal holes at distances of 500 yd or beyond, I would simply suggest using Shoot-N-C (reactive) targets. For many years I have used the 18" Shoot-N-C targets for practice at 600 yd. I black out all the lines/rings and numbers, leaving only the red aiming dot in the center. I sometimes inscribe scoring rings of the appropriate diameter using a compass, which only inscribes a very thin, but visible line. That leaves a very nice high contrast black background so that bullet holes that might fall across a line or number won't be obscured. Using such targets with a fairly decent spotting scope (Vortex Razor 85mm), I can readily see .223 Rem bullet holes at 600 yd, unless the mirage gets really strong. Even with very strong mirage, I can readily see .30 cal bullet holes. Below are a couple images of 600 yd practice targets with a .223 Rem using 90 VLDs (left) and a .308 Win with 185 Jugs (right).

 

[JDBraddy]

In my opinion the Kowa ED floriate coated scopes are as good or better than any scope on the market

ED and Flourite are not lense coatings. Different wavelengths of light fovus at different points. Causing in a poorly corected scope to have a violet fringe on one side and a yellow fringe on the other side of a high contrast bright object in view. ED and apochromatic are levels or degree of color correction, and Flourite is a specific type of rare-earth (expensive) glass, that is difficult to figure, but necessary in combination with other kinds of glass to achieve true apochromatic color correction. I'm not an optical engineer, but my understanding is that ED is improved color correction compared to plane Scott glass for example, but not true apochromatic color correction that require a Flourite lense element. ED is usually good enough for visual use, apochromatic is desirable for especially long exposure photography, such as asrophotography.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Fluorite (notice the spelling, it's not made of wheat) is a halide mineral, not a rare earth element. It is quite abundant and is used for a lot of things, including hydrogen fluoride, a commodity chemical meaning they make lot of it.

ED is a type of glass that I believe, uses some fluorite crystal to reduce CA. Super-ED uses more fluorite crystal to further reduce CA and approaches pure fluorite crystals capabilities without some of the latter's downsides (cost, difficulty of fabrication, temperature change sensitivity and fragility.)

 

[F/V Icy Swan]

JeffPPC noted: "Regardless of what brand you have if you have a zoom lens go to an astronomical single power wide angle lens"

What is an astronomical single power wide angel lens? I am looking at the Kowa 82SV and see three eyepiece choices, but nothing about astronomical power is mentioned. Astronomical power is intriguing and appeals to my NHRA appreciate of power, but where do you get such a thing if not offered by Champions Choice or Creedmoor?

Mike

 

[Dub]

A 25X EER wide angle is what most shooter I know use

 

[johara1]

JeffPPC noted: "Regardless of what brand you have if you have a zoom lens go to an astronomical single power wide angle lens"

What is an astronomical single power wide angel lens? I am looking at the Kowa 82SV and see three eyepiece choices, but nothing about astronomical power is mentioned. Astronomical power is intriguing and appeals to my NHRA appreciate of power, but where do you get such a thing if not offered by Champions Choice or Creedmoor?

Mike

You can buy an adaptor to use 1.250 Astronomical lenses in a Kowa and they are very reasonable. The catch is getting the right lens, You had better consult someone that knows. B&H photo has some very knowledgeable people that can help you. .... jim

 

[F/V Icy Swan]

Jim, thanks for the explanation. I definitely will contact B&H for help. This looks like one of those purchases where it pays to get it right the first time and not have extra, expensive eyepieces laying around.

Mike