Maybe some members can help me out with this. I currently shoot a 6mm AI 26" .800" at the muzzle, it's wonderfully accurate and it's a great coyote, antelope and deer round. I'm tired of carrying a heavy gun and want to build a lighter rifle to carry in the same round. My question is, I want a 24" #3 contour as recommended by a reputable barrel maker. I don't plan on shooting long strings, in real field use.....maybe 2-3 shots on a pack of coyotes. What is the accuracy potential of a lighter contour barrel compared to a heavy varmint or similar?
Sporter contour accuracy potential?
- Thread starter Plumsask
- Start date
nwmnbowhunter
Silver $$ Contributor
I've got bartlein 3 and 3b's in 7saum and 300 prc that are all day every day under 0.4 moa out to 700 yards. Have shot couple times at 1000 and still tight groups but i need more practice.
They are harder to shoot than a 12 pound Canon but with good stock fit and trigger they shoot just as well.
And yeah i usually rotate rifles at the range and do 2-3 shot strings.
They are harder to shoot than a 12 pound Canon but with good stock fit and trigger they shoot just as well.
And yeah i usually rotate rifles at the range and do 2-3 shot strings.
I have a Bartlein 2B in 257 Roberts on a long action Browning A Bolt that shoots between .5 and .75 for 5 rounds on any given day of the week. It will shoot < than MOA out to 500. I don't really think it added much to the weight of the rifle in stock form.
Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
I have a couple 2B sporters that shoot under 1/4" on fine actions, fine stocks with fine scopes (3 shot groups). One is a 6.5 CM and the other is a 260 Rem. I have multiple groups on the 260 that are under .1"
My opinion is that they will shoot just as small so long as the barrel is cool. For what you stated you'd be fine going down to a #0 or #1 and getting under 6 lbs scoped.
My opinion is that they will shoot just as small so long as the barrel is cool. For what you stated you'd be fine going down to a #0 or #1 and getting under 6 lbs scoped.
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5 pound gun, 1/4 moa 3 shot average at 1k.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
For me, a #4 Shilen contour is a maybe, prefer a #5 Shilen contour. I had rather have the barrel rigid vs length, but had rather have both length and rigid. I do not like to gamble on a very expensive barrel/Chamber job.
Tuning ultra light barrels is exponentially more difficult than barrels with some meat on them, for many reasons.
A bart 3b would be a very good contour for a 6 AI carry gun.
I would cut weight in the stock, and NOT flute the barrel.
Tuning ultra light barrels is exponentially more difficult than barrels with some meat on them, for many reasons.
A bart 3b would be a very good contour for a 6 AI carry gun.
I would cut weight in the stock, and NOT flute the barrel.
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Lets face it, sporter barrels on a hunting style stock aren't the same as shooting benchrest stock & barrel.
But with practice & proper load development, they can shoot darn well!
I have Browning, Weatherby, Ruger and Savage hunting rifles.
Most with factory barrels.
The aftermarket barrels are a make that most would snub their thumbs at.
But for hunting, they suit just fine!
0.78" groups of 5 at 100 yards off of improvised rest in different shooting positions are readily possible.
Go ahead and smack that steel gopher at 300 yards!
Furthest deer was 413 yards.
Just over 400 for coyote with a different rifle.
I even shot my first F-Open 600 yard match with a mostly factory Stevens 200 in 7mm-08AI.
So, yeah, build it & don't look back!
But with practice & proper load development, they can shoot darn well!
I have Browning, Weatherby, Ruger and Savage hunting rifles.
Most with factory barrels.
The aftermarket barrels are a make that most would snub their thumbs at.
But for hunting, they suit just fine!
0.78" groups of 5 at 100 yards off of improvised rest in different shooting positions are readily possible.
Go ahead and smack that steel gopher at 300 yards!
Furthest deer was 413 yards.
Just over 400 for coyote with a different rifle.
I even shot my first F-Open 600 yard match with a mostly factory Stevens 200 in 7mm-08AI.
So, yeah, build it & don't look back!
Just reduce the shot string and the pace of fire.
My 223 Rem Tikka 3X Lites, 8" twist with sporter weight barrels all shoot in the 1/2 moa range with tailor reloads using the 60 Vmax bullet and H4895 or Varget.
My 223 Rem, Rem Model 7's with aftermarket 20" Douglas barrels, No. 2 contour, 12" twist all shoot in the 1/2 range with tailor reloads using the 50 or 55 Nosler BT and H4895, Varget, or Benchmark.
My 223 Rem Browning X bolt same as the Rem Model 7's.
All these rifles are easy to tote in the field. I've taken a lot of ground hogs with the Model 7's, fewer with the Browning X bolt. They are great for stalking and moving around a lot.
I believe the key to getting a sporter weight rifles to shoot varmint / predator grade accuracy is to have a solid bedding system and free floating the barrel. That is the case on the aforementioned latter two examples I cited. I can't explain why the out of the box free floated barrel Tikka's shoot so well with no special bedding system that I can discern.
Also using tailored reloads is another key to getting these lightweight rifles to shoot well.
My 223 Rem, Rem Model 7's with aftermarket 20" Douglas barrels, No. 2 contour, 12" twist all shoot in the 1/2 range with tailor reloads using the 50 or 55 Nosler BT and H4895, Varget, or Benchmark.
My 223 Rem Browning X bolt same as the Rem Model 7's.
All these rifles are easy to tote in the field. I've taken a lot of ground hogs with the Model 7's, fewer with the Browning X bolt. They are great for stalking and moving around a lot.
I believe the key to getting a sporter weight rifles to shoot varmint / predator grade accuracy is to have a solid bedding system and free floating the barrel. That is the case on the aforementioned latter two examples I cited. I can't explain why the out of the box free floated barrel Tikka's shoot so well with no special bedding system that I can discern.
Also using tailored reloads is another key to getting these lightweight rifles to shoot well.
10XSHOOTER
Gold $$ Contributor
You could always go with a Carbon fiber barrel. Large diameter, stiff, but lightweight.
I have a 24" Proof on a 22-250AI Shoots in .4-.5 It's my go to Coyote rifle now.
I have a 24" Proof on a 22-250AI Shoots in .4-.5 It's my go to Coyote rifle now.
Gary in MD
Gold $$ Contributor
I agree with the others. My Tikka 8 twist 22-250 sure is light weight and is shooting 1/2” - 3/4” 3 shot groups. I think it will do better as I get better shooting it. They are a little harder (for me) to shoot accurately compared to the heavier rifles.
Gary
Gary
p-man
Gold $$ Contributor
The most important measure of accuracy to hunters is the measure of how consistently close the first couple of shots - out of a cold barrel under varying atmospheric conditions - are to the intended target throughout the intended range envelope; repeated groups out of a warm barrel maybe good for the hunter's ego but really have no practical relevance. This is diametrically opposed to what is needed from the target shooters. According to the barrel makers I've spoken with there is no theoretical difference in "hunter's accuracy" (as I've described it above) between heavy weight barrels and pencil-thin sporter barrels. As for a varmit hunter-shooter I would think that the factors required of the target shooters, ie. the number of repeated shots over an hour or more, definitely is the most important factor.
Being strictly a hunter-shooter, I would think the way to approach the weight factor - short of a carbon-wrapped barrel - would be cutting back on length before going below a heavy-weight sporter contour. Currently I'm building a longer-range hunter in 280AI based on a fluted Bartlein 3-B planned for a minimum finished length of 26-inches. Compared to all my other hunter contours, it would be considered a beast so to speak. Although weight is not my primary concern, since I build my own composite stocks, I can continue to maximize weight economy through trial and error. In your case - assuming that you will be using a bi-pod - I would NOT shy away from light-weight hunting stocks as long as the forend is strong AND rigid enough to resist flex and withstand the continued radial stresses imparted by the bipod during hundreds of firings. To meet both those requirements, that ususally requires a continuous aluminum spine/chassis from the bipod mount back to (and including) the front guard screw - bottomline; that eliminates the "pounders", as well as the TI type stocks having only independent pillars, but just about all the manufacturers make full-chassis sporter-style stocks in the 2 to 2.5-lb range suitable for bipod use. Don't know whether my rambling opinions help or not - as always, YMMV.
Being strictly a hunter-shooter, I would think the way to approach the weight factor - short of a carbon-wrapped barrel - would be cutting back on length before going below a heavy-weight sporter contour. Currently I'm building a longer-range hunter in 280AI based on a fluted Bartlein 3-B planned for a minimum finished length of 26-inches. Compared to all my other hunter contours, it would be considered a beast so to speak. Although weight is not my primary concern, since I build my own composite stocks, I can continue to maximize weight economy through trial and error. In your case - assuming that you will be using a bi-pod - I would NOT shy away from light-weight hunting stocks as long as the forend is strong AND rigid enough to resist flex and withstand the continued radial stresses imparted by the bipod during hundreds of firings. To meet both those requirements, that ususally requires a continuous aluminum spine/chassis from the bipod mount back to (and including) the front guard screw - bottomline; that eliminates the "pounders", as well as the TI type stocks having only independent pillars, but just about all the manufacturers make full-chassis sporter-style stocks in the 2 to 2.5-lb range suitable for bipod use. Don't know whether my rambling opinions help or not - as always, YMMV.
nakneker
Gold $$ Contributor
If your looking for an off the shelf rifle that doesn’t hurt the bank account too much and shoots take a look at Tikka T3. I have a 223, 6.5 creed, 6.5x55 that are all stock factory rifles and shoot .5 with very little development. Three shot groups with little time for the barrel to cool. They will open up (at least all these three do) a bit if your shooting 4 or 5 shot groups one right after another. Two of these have fluted barrels, one has the standard sporter barrel. Very easy to carry in the field. Exceptional value and good quality.
If you go the custom route then your only limited by your imagination and budget. I have a 6.5x47 that’s sees a lot of use hunting with a fluted hawk hill #4. It’s not as light as the Tikka T3s but the rifle shoots lights out and will hold a group for 4-5 shots. It’s easy to pack in the field too.
If your hunting hopefully your not shooting more than once but if your are it won’t wander on you. A fluted #4 or even #5 doesn’t add a ton of weight to a rifle, it won’t be like a 24 inch heavy barrel, it’s nice compromise between a 6 pound rifle and a 10 pound rifle.
If you go the custom route then your only limited by your imagination and budget. I have a 6.5x47 that’s sees a lot of use hunting with a fluted hawk hill #4. It’s not as light as the Tikka T3s but the rifle shoots lights out and will hold a group for 4-5 shots. It’s easy to pack in the field too.
If your hunting hopefully your not shooting more than once but if your are it won’t wander on you. A fluted #4 or even #5 doesn’t add a ton of weight to a rifle, it won’t be like a 24 inch heavy barrel, it’s nice compromise between a 6 pound rifle and a 10 pound rifle.
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This very spot on from my hunter's experience perspective. I've hunted a lot of varmints over the past 50 years, and rarely have I had to take a hot barrel shot even in the "hay days" when hogs were plentiful. This is why all my practice is with cold to cool barrel shots. Yea, it takes me about 1 hour or so to get through a 10-shot string on a warm day, my typical practice session with my shooting sticks.
The one advantage, at least for me, with the heavy contour varmint barrels is that even with the relatively light recoil of a 223 Rem, I can shoot better off the shooting sticks because of the extra weight. There is less movement and it's easier for me to stay on target even through the shot. However, this may be a personal issue.
Emmett Dibble
Gold $$ Contributor
^^^ That. Lighter contours “tend” to have a Cold barrel POA/POI difference more often then a heavier barrel, but it’s usually minute of critter so…. Do your load development the way you plan on shooting it and if there is a discrepancy make note of it.
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