Sotgun wad question.. I cant get an answer to.

[Rsadams]

In my previous thread ( shotgun ) I explained that I was making some reduced recoil 8-00 pellet 1oz buckshot loads. The loads shoot great but since I am useing the pink waa12sl wad when stacking the pellets 2 by 2 they are just above the shot cup enough to make the crimps ugly and deform the tops of the shells a bit. Shoot great though...

My question is can I use the waa12 wad in place of the waa12sl wad which is shorter and holds the pellets right at the top of the shot cup so the crimps should be perfect. The load with the waa12sl wad is only 6800 psi. I can't find any info on this becouse most people would not use the waa12 wad with.a 1oz load becouse your crimps would cave in useing bird shot becouse they wouldn't fill the cup.

So I know very little but l know your not supposed to substitute things. But does anyone think changing from the WAA12SL to the WAA12 would really couse that much of a problem??

Thanks in advance for looking at my noob question... Any other data need to answer I will be glad to fill in..

 

[fredhorace77]

This is strictly my opinion. I don't think in your usage that it's going to make much difference. Simply because you are using a reduced load. You can always back off the powder just a bit if your worried about it. But make sure your wad seats fully against the powder charge. You definitely don't want any air gap between the powder and wad, similar to a muzzle loader. If you go to low or "light" on the load I assume the only major risk you maybe taking is having a stuck wad. Which is not that big of a deal as long as you get it out before firing additional shots.

BTW, How do you know the psi rating for your load, do you have a pressure test barrel?

This is one of the factors that has always frustrated me about shotgun reloading. There is not really an easy and conventional way to watch for pressure signs, and also changing any one item in the shot shells cartridge could potentially be dangerous. I ended up choosing to just stick with standard book loads no matter what I was shooting. Sometimes experimenting can be fun and exciting, but it can also be dangerous, especially with that charge going off inches from your head....personally I would give up on the "non-book-data loads" and just stick with what is published to be safe. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jkl]

Look in the book or powder manufactures load data on line. Is 8 pellets the proper weight? My guess the wad is to high but you may need an over shot wad to get a pretty crimp. Look up Ballistic Products in Minnesota they did a bunch of heavy loads and have different wads and cards. Stick to the book a shotgun barrel is much easier to blow up than a rifle.

John

 

[Rsadams]

Look in the book or powder manufactures load data on line. Is 8 pellets the proper weight? My guess the wad is to high but you may need an over shot wad to get a pretty crimp. Look up Ballistic Products in Minnesota they did a bunch of heavy loads and have different wads and cards. Stick to the book a shotgun barrel is much easier to blow up than a rifle.

John

Yes the 8 pellet load is just under 1 oz. The book calls for the waa12sl wad Becouse it's for a 1 oz load but becouse the buckshot stacks higher than 1oz of bird shot by just a little bit the crimp comes out goofy on some ...
The only thing that I would be changing is to the waa12 wad becouse the cup is for a larger load of shot and there for shorter in length and the 8 pellet load stacks to just the top of the cup...

Waa12sl is for an optimal load of 1oz..
Waa12. Is for an optimal load of 1 1/8 oz

I would be loading the same 1 oz load in the waa12 wad only taking advantage of the slightly shorter length and slightly larger shot cup nothing else would be changing. Even if it increased the psi 1500 as I have seen some data increases by useing an incorrect wad my starting pressure is only 6800...it doesn't care what shot it's loaded with as long as the weight for the charge is correct.. In this case useing a 1oz load in a 1 1/8 wad..

 

[Rsadams]

This is strictly my opinion. I don't think in your usage that it's going to make much difference. Simply because you are using a reduced load. You can always back off the powder just a bit if your worried about it. But make sure your wad seats fully against the powder charge. You definitely don't want any air gap between the powder and wad, similar to a muzzle loader. If you go to low or "light" on the load I assume the only major risk you maybe taking is having a stuck wad. Which is not that big of a deal as long as you get it out before firing additional shots.

BTW, How do you know the psi rating for your load, do you have a pressure test barrel?

This is one of the factors that has always frustrated me about shotgun reloading. There is not really an easy and conventional way to watch for pressure signs, and also changing any one item in the shot shells cartridge could potentially be dangerous. I ended up choosing to just stick with standard book loads no matter what I was shooting. Sometimes experimenting can be fun and exciting, but it can also be dangerous, especially with that charge going off inches from your head....personally I would give up on the "non-book-data loads" and just stick with what is published to be safe. Just my 2 cents.

The pressure for the load with the waa12sl wad is listed in the manual at 6800 psi with 1oz of payload. The 8 pellet 00 payload is not even an ounce it's 0.96 of an ounce..

 

[brantfredrickson]

You got to fit your components, shot, wad, and powder in a certain length. Usually your shot and powder are fixed, thus they take up a fixed length. The only thing you can change is the wad. If the stack is too high, the crimp will pouch. If the stack is too low the crimp will cave in. Substitute different wads to get the crimp right. The only guidance is that if your using a tapered hull like Remington or Winchester, use a tapered wad. Straight hulls like Federal, use a straight wad. I have done numerous substitutions; all successfully. I have reloaded about 50K rounds. All the experts post on Shotgunworld.com

 

[fredhorace77]

You got to fit your components, shot, wad, and powder in a certain length. Usually your shot and powder are fixed, thus they take up a fixed length. The only thing you can change is the wad. If the stack is too high, the crimp will pouch. If the stack is too low the crimp will cave in. Substitute different wads to get the crimp right. The only guidance is that if your using a tapered hull like Remington or Winchester, use a tapered wad. Straight hulls like Federal, use a straight wad. I have done numerous substitutions; all successfully. I have reloaded about 50K rounds. All the experts post on Shotgunworld.com

This is very good advice. Not that this site is not good, that other forum is probably best.

 

[Rsadams]

You got to fit your components, shot, wad, and powder in a certain length. Usually your shot and powder are fixed, thus they take up a fixed length. The only thing you can change is the wad. If the stack is too high, the crimp will pouch. If the stack is too low the crimp will cave in. Substitute different wads to get the crimp right. The only guidance is that if your using a tapered hull like Remington or Winchester, use a tapered wad. Straight hulls like Federal, use a straight wad. I have done numerous substitutions; all successfully. I have reloaded about 50K rounds. All the experts post on Shotgunworld.com

Iam useing fed. Gold medal hulls.. The wads are listed for these hulls with a different primer but with the heaver 1 1/8 load.. I have tried so many times to register at shotgunworld but there seems to be a problem with their sign up..

 

[243winxb]

Just pick one that fits. If the powder charge is producing maximum pressure, drop back 1 gr of powder.

 

[Rsadams]

Just pick one that fits. If the powder charge is producing maximum pressure, drop back 1 gr of powder.

The 1 oz charge with the waa12sl wad is according to lyman #5 only at 6800 psi,, can go as high as 11,700 but that's pretty much the limit.. Original load is very soft shooting...

 

[brantfredrickson]

Federal Gold Medals I believe are straight walled hulls and Waa's are tapered wads. Find a straight wall wad to use with the straight wall hull. Most shotgun powder does not burn well at 6800 psi. 9000 to 10000 psi is were you want to be. However if I had a combination that only produced 6800 psi, I would assembly the components and use them up. On the next buy, buy components that will give you 9000 to 10000 psi.

Federal primers are the hottest. I estimate it gives extra pressure equivalent to a .5 grain of powder compared to Winchester primers. I use them in the winter with the same load with Winchester primers in the summer.

In my opinion the two big dangers in shot shell reloading are:
1. Loading a double charge. If you get a premonition you have done this on the press, go to the scale and check it out.
2. Shooting a dud and not clearing the barrel of the wad. Then loading another shell and firing. I shoot a break open gun and its easy to check. On an automatic you can't see, so run a rod down the barrel to make sure. Train yourself that when you shoot a dud this is the first thing on your mind. Not the next shot.

 

[Rsadams]

Federal Gold Medals I believe are straight walled hulls and Waa's are tapered wads. Find a straight wall wad to use with the straight wall hull. Most shotgun powder does not burn well at 6800 psi. 9000 to 10000 psi is were you want to be. However if I had a combination that only produced 6800 psi, I would assembly the components and use them up. On the next buy, buy components that will give you 9000 to 10000 psi.

Federal primers are the hottest. I estimate it gives extra pressure equivalent to a .5 grain of powder compared to Winchester primers. I use them in the winter with the same load with Winchester primers in the summer.

In my opinion the two big dangers in shot shell reloading are:
1. Loading a double charge. If you get a premonition you have done this on the press, go to the scale and check it out.
2. Shooting a dud and not clearing the barrel of the wad. Then loading another shell and firing. I shoot a break open gun and its easy to check. On an automatic you can't see, so run a rod down the barrel to make sure. Train yourself that when you shoot a dud this is the first thing on your mind. Not the next shot.

He thanks for your reply...
I drop powder charges weighing them on my rcbs scale instead of useing the machine just to be safe useing buckshot since you have to hand load the shot aenyway... The low pressure load is out of the lyman5 manual for 1 oz of shot.. Yes the Fed. 209a are extremely hot for a non magnum primer but it's all I could find local and now they have dryed up also..As soon as I can pick up some win 209 it will open up a lot more loads..

 

[ireload2]

I used the WAA12 and the WAA12SL with the same skeet load for years. The 1oz pink wad was not as easily found as the white 1 1/8 wad during the years I shot a lot of skeet. After years of shooting 1 1/8 loads I switched to 1oz of shot in 12 ga when the price of shot started going up. I had done well shooting 7/8 oz in a 20 ga so I tried the lighter loads in the 12ga. They tossed out a set of old Thomas Register books at work. I ripped off all the covers and punched them into a pile of wads with a Strippet 30-30 punch press. I put the book cover wads in the bottom of the WAA12 shot cup with 1oz of shot and 18 grains of Red Dot. My autoloading shotgun, a Win SuperX 1, short cycled 1 time the first 200 rounds so I upped the powder charge to 18.5 grn of Red Dot. I also this load in a Smith and Wesson 3000 pump. I used several different hulls as well as some of the cheap clone wads intended to replace the same 2 Winchester wads. The 3 hulls that I used the most were Win AA, Rem black compression molded Dove and Quail, and Federal plastic tube paper base wad Dove and Quail hulls. My club burned the Federal plastic tube paper base wad hulls so I could get them free by the thousands. I made sure to use only hulls that had never been wet. They were reloaded twice maximum and then left for burning.

You might check the bore of your gun and see how dirty the powder is burning. If it is really cruddy you can bet the pressure is too low. If you shoot an autoloader it might malfunction with a light load. I know my Super X would malfunction with some of the Estate or Spanish loaded 1oz factory loads. I only had it short cycle one time with my hand loads before bumping the load up 1/2 grain. My best advice with a shotgun is to always use a powder that is well known for use in the loads you want to shoot. There should be lots of loading data with many components from many sources. It does not hurt a thing if the powder has been on the market 100 years.

 

[Rsadams]

I used the WAA12 and the WAA12SL with the same skeet load for years. The 1oz pink wad was not as easily found as the white 1 1/8 wad during the years I shot a lot of skeet. After years of shooting 1 1/8 loads I switched to 1oz of shot in 12 ga when the price of shot started going up. I had done well shooting 7/8 oz in a 20 ga so I tried the lighter loads in the 12ga. They tossed out a set of old Thomas Register books at work. I ripped off all the covers and punched them into a pile of wads with a Strippet 30-30 punch press. I put the book cover wads in the bottom of the WAA12 shot cup with 1oz of shot and 18 grains of Red Dot. My autoloading shotgun, a Win SuperX 1, short cycled 1 time the first 200 rounds so I upped the powder charge to 18.5 grn of Red Dot. I also this load in a Smith and Wesson 3000 pump. I used several different hulls as well as some of the cheap clone wads intended to replace the same 2 Winchester wads. The 3 hulls that I used the most were Win AA, Rem black compression molded Dove and Quail, and Federal plastic tube paper base wad Dove and Quail hulls. My club burned the Federal plastic tube paper base wad hulls so I could get them free by the thousands. I made sure to use only hulls that had never been wet. They were reloaded twice maximum and then left for burning.

You might check the bore of your gun and see how dirty the powder is burning. If it is really cruddy you can bet the pressure is too low. If you shoot an autoloader it might malfunction with a light load. I know my Super X would malfunction with some of the Estate or Spanish loaded 1oz factory loads. I only had it short cycle one time with my hand loads before bumping the load up 1/2 grain. My best advice with a shotgun is to always use a powder that is well known for use in the loads you want to shoot. There should be lots of loading data with many components from many sources. It does not hurt a thing if the powder has been on the market 100 years.

Great, thanks everyone.. Iam making a managed recoil 8 pellet 1oz buckshot load. With the waa12sl it works great and comes out to .41 cents a round instead of $1.00+ a round for factory loads. But Becouse the pellets stack higher than bird shot the crimps are ugly Becouse of the top 2 pellets. ( stacked 2 by 2 ). The penetration is great and groups were about 8 inches at about 17 yards.. Best of all it doesn't tear your shoulder off with a 18.5" mossberg pump. That's why I picked such a low pressure load 6800psi at 1235 fps.

This is strictly for a SHTF situation that myself and many others see coming.. Hope not,, and to play around with.. With the waa12 wad the pellets stack perfectly at the top of the wad. And yes iam getting some unburnt powder Becouse 8 pellets of 00 is only .96 of an oz. So I slight increase in charge or even the wad change would help. But I don't think the wad is gona do it.

There's the exact load with the waa12 wad and a win.209 primer but for 1 1/8 oz weight at 8800 psi. Iam pretty sure the increase in psi is from the increase in weight. But since iam stuck with the hot fed.209a primer and do not want a 1 1/8 weight load I may be able later to increase the charge on the 1oz load..to decrease the unburnt powder.. Its slight... I was just wondering if any one has used the waa12 wad in 1oz loads as you have.. And what the results were..

Just a rundown on components... Fed Gold medal hulls..fed.209A primers and winchester WST powder and of course one of the two wads...also .96 oz or 8 pellets of 00 buckshot..

Sorry so long...lol