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Sorting LC brass

I have 1K+ of 223 mixed brass I'm sorting by head stamp, about 300 rounds of it is LC. Do I need to further sort the LC brass into years or by case weight? The same for the 300 or so Federal cases. Do they need sorted by weight? I also have about 300 cases of PMC, but I don't know if that's worth using for match ammo. I'll be using it to load for my High Power Service Rifle.
 
Sir ( Name?)
If your a Sharp shooter or below in NRA service rifle just sort by head stamp. Be very very careful with the Federal as its been know in the past to be soft and will sperate especially in an Auto Loader gas gun like the AR. Hate to have you get a sepearted case in the middle of a match.. That would $uck.
You can research it for yourself instead of taking my word on it: http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6071

The LC brass will serve you very well. Not sure about the PMC as I dont see to many Highpower shooters using it. I have some but have not used it as its for the kids plinkin ammo. I dont let him use my good LC or WCC brass. Ha! Almost sounds silly comming out of my mouth when all my other brass is Lapua or Norma.

Keep track of the times you reload it. I would pick out 200 pcs and load it and by the time it gets to 4X loaded move it to Practice ammo and use another 200pcs that are new and keep rotating them that way so you have fresh brass for leg matches.

Just a thought hope that helps.
RussT
 
If the crimp in the LC brass is not a round crimp, but rather has four stakes in the base of the case around the primer, do not reuse that brass.. it was staked because the factory deemed it only safe enough to use once.. the primer was staked in order to ensure that the primer would stay in.. it was staked because the plant deemed the case head too soft to support a regular crimp to keep the primer in.
 
FroggyOne2 said:
If the crimp in the LC brass is not a round crimp, but rather has four stakes in the base of the case around the primer, do not reuse that brass.. it was staked because the factory deemed it only safe enough to use once.. the primer was staked in order to ensure that the primer would stay in.. it was staked because the plant deemed the case head too soft to support a regular crimp to keep the primer in.

Thats a new one to me..Can you point to some actual proof of this?
 
FroggyOne2 said:
If the crimp in the LC brass is not a round crimp, but rather has four stakes in the base of the case around the primer, do not reuse that brass.. it was staked because the factory deemed it only safe enough to use once.. the primer was staked in order to ensure that the primer would stay in.. it was staked because the plant deemed the case head too soft to support a regular crimp to keep the primer in.

I have heard or read that the 4 indents are just a new way to crimp the primer. I find it hard to believe that they would even use suspect brass for original loadings. Perhaps if this was a lawyer free society, mabey. Am very interested in where you got this information. I have several hundred of those cartridges.

Tom
 
Tom I tend to agree based on what BigedP51 posted about how the 5.56 brass is double stamped to increase hardness and posted actual information about it. The picture I posted is "actual battle field ammo". (new M855A1) I took that picture around march of this year while down range.
I highly doubt the Vickers hardness for 5.56 Brass has decreased for use in combat rifles.

But wanted to give Froggy a chance to prove his point first. ;D

Hope all is well.
 
Thanks guys. I appreciate your advice. I'll set aside the PMC and Federal for when my little brother visits.i was shooting 224/250 when I was in boot amp 8 years ago on a broken foot, so I hope I can get at least that with a good foot, White Oak upper, and hand loads.
 
Well the horse that I got the info from Russ is Jeff Bartlett. The reason that the subject came up was that we were talking about sorting LC brass and what years if any were better than others.. He asked me if I had come across any of said mentioned brass. I said yes.. to which he began to inform me of the details.. and advised to advoid using that brass.
 
Indeed some more investigation is needed.
Randy if you get a chance please ask Jeff to point me into some more proof than word of mouth. I have been doing some research from AFAR on that statement but have not come up with anything yet. I will still look however.

RussT
 
When I do talk to him again and there will be a time that I will. So far, in going through the 2011 brass that I have been prepping, I have found about 10 that were like that.. mostly 2012 brass is stamped on the head of the case. As you know, the 2011 brass that was released to the public for consumption does not have a crimp in it.. Jeff stated that was because Lake City rejected that lot. I do know that after doing a full out prep on the brass, it shoots just as good as Lapua.. My test was at 300 yards, with the same load that I used with Lapua brass in the "lil green gun" with the 75's. 150-10X on the reduced target.

But back to it.. I don't think that Jeff would have warned me about it, if he didn't feel that there was or knew something behind it.......
 
Any further insight to the "bad" crimpped LC 11 brass?

We have over a ton of it, (2- 55 gallon crums) just came in from the Border Patrol Training Center.

Is it what we bought it for (scrap) or is it usable as .223 Rem. loadings?
 
What's supposed to be "bad" about it?

If it hasn't rusted or been trampled on you've got an easy $7-10 a hundered there.
That's twice what it's worth as scrap.

Drives me nut's, a local gun range has pretty strict rules about brass, if it's your's you can pick it up, but the RO is like a HAWK watching so you don't touch anothers single piece.
Anyway's they sell it as scrap by the barrel full once or twice a year. If you ask to even look at the barrel of scrap it's a flat out rudely stated emphatic NO!
All that good brass,, :(
 
37Lincoln1 said:
necchi-

Read about the "staked" primer pockets?

Exactly, just like the pictured LC 11 brass above, less the live primer as it is once fired, just hate to send it out in a truck on Tuesday if it's still usable.
 
FroggyOne2 said:
When I do talk to him again and there will be a time that I will. So far, in going through the 2011 brass that I have been prepping, I have found about 10 that were like that.. mostly 2012 brass is stamped on the head of the case. As you know, the 2011 brass that was released to the public for consumption does not have a crimp in it.. Jeff stated that was because Lake City rejected that lot. I do know that after doing a full out prep on the brass, it shoots just as good as Lapua.. My test was at 300 yards, with the same load that I used with Lapua brass in the "lil green gun" with the 75's. 150-10X on the reduced target.

The highlighted info above probably explains why i and 3 or 4 other service rifle shooters have had case head seperation on this 2011 LC brass. Comes apart right above web area, looks like the brass was very thin in that area. I think Midway should have noted that it was rejected brass but choose not to. I still have around 1K but am not going to use it for any serious matches. Should have kept the few that came apart and posted pics.

But back to it.. I don't think that Jeff would have warned me about it, if he didn't feel that there was or knew something behind it.......
 
So cases with no crimp are soft and cause headaches......

What about a solid answer about the stuff with the 4 crimps around the primer?

Thinking I make my 40,000 lb. load with no problems if it's no good........
 
Hi, bigedp51 here and putting an end to rumor control and its wild misinformation.

In the photo below on the far right and left are Lake City brass and the web area at the flash hole is much thicker than the Federal case in the center. "SOME" batches of Federal cases have the thin web area and have a bad habit of the primers falling out when these cases are again loaded on the warm side.

Google is a wonderful tool for getting and learning information, forums are good for spreading rumors and misinformation.

fedcasethickness.jpg


Alliant Techsystems Inc. (ATK) has the contract to make ammo at the Lake City plant for the military. Federal is part of ATK and they make "military type" ammunition at their civilian Federal ammunition plant. "BUT" some of their brass is made to .223 pressure standards and is "NOT" mil-spec grade. Also you will see two different loading pressure standards at some websites for military and civilian loadings.

If you mix military high pressure loads in softer civilian cases you can run into problems, and most of these are popped primers jamming the trigger group of your AR with the brass ending up in the trash, end of story. I reload my ammo to pressures below both standards and my brass loves me, my rifle loves me and in most cases when you shoot a zombie in the head they don't notice the difference either.

On a fired case the rear end of my vernier calipers will fit in the neck and you can get a thickness reading in the web. If the rear end of your vernier calipers will not fit in the neck then cut a two inch rod that will fit the neck and measure using the rod checking for web thickness. I know this because I have three five gallon buckets of .223/5.56 once fired brass and after sorting by head stamp I prepped the the "wrong" Federal cases first. On the bright side now I have prepped Federal cases I can use for reduced loads once my sore fingers stop bleeding from removing all those crimps and uniforming all those primer pockets. (and making the web area even thinner) :'(

The problem started during the Viet Nam war and was just one of the many causes of the jamming problem when the M16 rifle first came out.

Casehardness-a.jpg


556hard-a.jpg


hardness-a.jpg


.223 vs 5.56: What’s the Problem?
ftp://ftp.fwpubs.com/Outbound/Direct%20Brands/GD2013_AR15.pdf

There is 10,000 psi difference in chamber pressure between a .223 and the 5.56 cartridge. And mil-spec 5.56 brass MUST be harder and stronger than commercial brass to withstand the higher pressures and larger military chambers. And if the case does not have the NATO symbol stamped on the base, it does not meet military standards for hardness and pressure. ;)

barnes-pressure.jpg


5.56 vs .223 – What You Know May Be Wrong
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

And to make up for my sore fingers from removing crimps from thin Federal brass.....................................

Eat your hearts out, the Remington .223 five gallon bucket is missing in the photo, and isn't crimped.

bucketsofbrass.jpg


And the Remington brass is used for my Zombie loads. ;D

Zmax.jpg
 

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