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Something odd in Ken Howell's book

Brians356

Silver $$ Contributor
In Ken Howell's seminal book "Custom Cartridges" he states 250-3000 Ackley Improved can be fire-formed from 243 Winchester brass. Looking at the SAAMI drawings, I don't see how one could chamber 243 Win case in a 250 AI chamber - the body's too long.

Can anyone with a 250 AI try to chamber an unfired 243 Win case and report if it's possible? Just curious. (A fired 243 Win case will not chamber in my Rem 700 in 250 AI w/ 40-deg shoulder - bolt not even forward enough to "turn the corner".)
 
Is he saying without at least rough forming the .243 in a die to allow it to chamber like using an expander and then a forming die or even a full length die?
 
I would bet that is a misprint... You could neck up 22-250 brass, run it into a 250-3000 A.I. die and then fireform that>> I would guess>> I have never tried such a thing>>but the 22-250 parent's case is the 250-3000..
 
ShootDots said:
I would bet that is a misprint... You could neck up 22-250 brass, run it into a 250-3000 A.I. die and then fireform that>> I would guess>> I have never tried such a thing>>but the 22-250 parent's case is the 250-3000..

Howell advocates "bulletless" fireforming, and that's what he was suggesting. So no necking up implied. (FWIW all my 250 AI cases were fireformed, bulletless, from unaltered 22-250 cases - works great! No dies involved at all.)

No, he specifically says "... or fireform from ... 243 Winchester". The book is so meticulously written and edited, it's hard to credit it as a typo or misprint, yet it seems clearly erroneous. Just wanted someone to try chamber with an unfired case.
 
I bet if you ran .243 Winchester brass into your 250-3000AI Full Length die it would size the shoulder back enough to chamber, and resize the neck for the .25 caliber bullet...if you wanted to fire-form that way...

MQ1
 
MQ1 said:
I bet if you ran .243 Winchester brass into your 250-3000AI Full Length die it would size the shoulder back enough to chamber, and resize the neck for the .25 caliber bullet...if you wanted to fire-form that way...

Thanks, probably would work, but naw, I'm not looking for a new source for cases, as I stated I like my 22-250s (and no die required.) And, I have a bunch of real 250-3000 virgin cases as well.

No, I just wanted to prove that Howell's book contained a mistake.
 
As a guy who has written and edited more than my fair share, I don't know if you've proved the author wrong, but you have pointed out that he could have been more specific about the exact process of forming .243 Winchester into the wildcat.

FWIW,

MQ1
 
MQ1 said:
As a guy who has written and edited more than my fair share, I don't know if you've proved the author wrong, but you have pointed out that he could have been more specific about the exact process of forming .243 Winchester into the wildcat.

FWIW,

MQ1

A number of years ago, before Lapua started making 22-250 brass, a good friend of mine made a fair amount of 6-250 brass from Lapua 243 Win. Howell didn't make a mistake. He just could have made it clearer by putting in the other steps.

Rick
 
Greyfox said:
MQ1 said:
As a guy who has written and edited more than my fair share, I don't know if you've proved the author wrong, but you have pointed out that he could have been more specific about the exact process of forming .243 Winchester into the wildcat.

FWIW,

MQ1

A number of years ago, before Lapua started making 22-250 brass, a good friend of mine made a fair amount of 6-250 brass from Lapua 243 Win. Howell didn't make a mistake. He just could have made it clearer by putting in the other steps.

Rick

You fellows misunderstand both my motive (perhaps) and the text in question. I'm not trying to make Howell look bad. I own and cherish a signed copy of his book, and other than official SAAMI drawings, his book is my first and often last stop reference on cartridges and how to make them. I defer to Howell on most any topic related to case forming - including annealing. My intent was wanting to verify that there is an error in the text, as if getting my ducks in a row before submitting an erratum report to the author and/or publisher, for improving a future edition.

Howell (or an editor) did make a mistake, and perhaps I should have provided a more complete transcription of the entry in question (250-3000 Ackley Improved) which I think makes the mistake obvious.

Howell is very specific about how to form cases, and leaves nothing to the reader's imagination. When dies are involved, he always states that, and also states the specific dies required.

Here are the three options Howell offered for making 250-3000 AI cases (annotated, edited, and emphasized for clarity here):

1. Fire 250-3000 factory ammunition in a 250-3000 AI chamber

2. Fireform regular 250-3000 or 243 Winchester with inert filler

3. Form from 308 Winchester using RCBS form, trim, and ream dies.

The mistake is that "or 243 Winchester" was inserted in option 2 rather than option 3 where it obviously belongs (unless someone can chamber an unfired 243 Win case in a 250 AI chamber, which I'll wager cannot be done.) Or, simpler, 243 Win probably should have been omitted entirely, even from option 3, as there would be an added step of necking up from 6mm to 25 cal.

The only way 243 Win could be fireformed would be to apply option 3 first, then apply option 2 to it (essentially just to expand the neck). Howell isn't inclined to mention such an involved approach, especially when there are so many easy approaches available, as is the case here.
 

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