some noob questions

[CanadaGoose]

Hi,

I bought a Ruger 77/22 on a whim at Bass Pro last year, and now I'm hooked...and hungry for something bigger. After much research, I fell in love with the Sako TRG 22. It's perfect for me becuse it appears to have excelent out of the box accuracy, and I want a gun that can shoot way better than me so I can grow into it and not worry about getting something else down the line. I also don't know nearly enough to build a custom rifle, so this seems like the best choice in terms of accuracy and price. I know there are cheaper rifles out there that probably shoot just as well, but something about the TRG really has me hooked.

Anyway, here are my questions:

1. What is the best suppressor for this gun and where can I get it? Suppressor info (brands, types, reviews, etc...) on the internet has been much harder to come by for me than stuff about guns and optics, so I would appreciate a recommendation. I want something with the maximum level of suppression possible, since I already have a permanent ringing in my ears from too much loud music.

2. After looking around, I came up with a list of good scope brands (Leupold, Nightforce, Zeiss, etc...), but I don't really know what I will need. These things range so much in price, and I'm not sure what differentiates the $500 scope from the $10k one. Also, I want to eventually shoot out to 1000m. As far as I can tell, the TRG can do that with the right load. What scope will let me do that and what reticle should I get?

3. I see many people at the range using either sighting scopes or binocs, and some using both. I assume these are used to spot points of impact w/o having to schlep out to the target. Is that correct? If so, what is the advantage of a scope over binocs? Why do some people have both? Again, as with the rifle scopes, there is such a huge price range on these...what should I be looking for?

I know most of you guys can probably go on for pages about any one of these questions, but I hope to get some general ideas to get me started. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Kenny474]

No idea about suppressors, but with glass always remember you get what you pay for in regards to clarity, repeatable adjustments, and overall quality.
Other can explain the scope benefits far better than I can, so I will leave that alone.

But in regards to the spotting scope and binoculars, the spotting scope will normally have far more magnification and be used on a tri-pod for added stability. Spotting scopes with 20-60 power magnification are pretty common, and others have 80x and higher. They will show detail at longer ranges than binoculars by far, but they don't have the field of view or the mobility, hence the pair being used in tandem. It's far easier to scout out a field for game with binoculars than a spotting scope, as you can see so much more. But when it's time to tune in on a varmint 800yds away, the spotting scope really comes in handy.

Basically they each have their own purpose. Binoculars for scouting game, and spotting scopes for seeing bullet holes and honing in on game at long distance. I'm sure they have other uses as well, but these are their primary job in the field or at the range.

 

[RonAKA]

I have no idea about suppressors. Centerfire cartridge bullets break the sound barrier so there is no way to control that, short of loading sub sonic rounds. You may want to look at buying a good pair of ear muffs, and wear ear plugs under them. Some are electronic and cut off automatically.

For out of the box long range target guns, have you considered the Savage Target models? The F-Class? In 6.5x284 Norma it should be a very good 1000 yard gun. I believe some are winning matches with them.

http://savageaccuracy.com/2009/12/23/f-class-competition-field-report/

If you are in Canada, Peter Dobson at Hirsch Precision carries Sightron and Nightforce scopes.

http://www.hirschprecision.com/

I think the Sightron line is a good price performance balance, and in particular their Big Sky models. The Sightron III models look good except they only have 1/4 MOA click adjustments, instead of 1/8.

On spotting scopes they are much more powerful than rifle scopes and binoculars. A good friend did a lot of research on them and bought the Bushnell Elite. The Bushnell Legend Ultra HD is probably nearly as good, at significantly less cost.

 

[nhm16]

Since a TRG-22 is in the "tactical" style, Sniper's Hide is a good place to find answers. As for a scope, I would recommend a good "tactical" scope with target turrets, not hunting turrets. Something like like a Nightforce NXS, Schmidt & Bender, Premier, etc., if you can swing the $$$, though others make more reasonably priced scopes that would also work well.

 

[UK]

there is a dedicated supressor made for the TRG, you can buy it with the package here in England, the TRG comes pre threaded for it.
Dont you guys need a class 3 dealer, I know the guy who owns Sabre and he lives in England Im sure he would know how to get you one, where are you based?. The best on the market in my opinion is the Finnish ASE Utra compact, availible in 30 cal it is very efficient, I have had them on many different calibres .223 etc and currently have one on my .338 which is quieter than anything else I have ever tried.
As far as the maximum noise reduction possible on a supressor that is a hard question to answer. Differences in supressor design remove different parts of the sound spectrum, so they sound different and based on your hearing the same supressor can sound different to two different people. maximum supression is generally achieved by matching the bullet diameter closely to the baffle hole diameter in the supressor and also its swept volume and efficiency of baffle design, the hole size of course means the thread on the barrel and the bore must be concentric to avoid bullets striking the baffles and wrecking it.
also be aware that 3db of sound reduction is actually a halving of the sound level so figures published by supressor manufacturers that dont look much different can actually be very audibly different. Lastly we have a huge choice of manufacturers here as everyone uses them, but you must also weigh up the other points like weight and if you want to strip it to clean it, muzzle mounting or sleeve over the barrel are other options.
I have been using supressors for about 10 years and have probably owned four or five dozen different ones so if you have any more specific questions Im sure I could answer them, look at www.Jacksonrifles.co.uk for the details on the ASE Utra range of supressors.
Hope this helps, also consider that when using a supressor on a rifle for target shooting they heat up after about 4 or 5 shots on a 308, quicker on larger calibres, this causes a mirage problem which will be very apparent through your scope, the higher the mag the worse it gets, you will have to leave the gun to cool for 5 to ten minutes or so depending on the ambient temperature, and the point of impact usually varies about 3-6 inches with the supressor on tightening it differently will also vary the left-right position of the shot due to the torqueing effect on the barrel.
Cant think of much else you might want to know, they need reasonalbly regular cleaning, gasoline or an ultrasonic cleaner works very well, oh and never leave it on the gun as your barrel will rust in very short order, apart from that the difference that they make to your shooting is unmeasurable, the felt recoil will be reduced so much with a good supressor its like shooting a pop gun.

 

[CanadaGoose]

Thanks for all the input, guys!

Since a TRG-22 is in the "tactical" style, Sniper's Hide is a good place to find answers.

Thanks for pointing me in that direction. I did get some good info there. I guess I never really considered the type of rifle it was.

For out of the box long range target guns, have you considered the Savage Target models? The F-Class? In 6.5x284 Norma it should be a very good 1000 yard gun.

I checked out the Savage F-class. It's a slick looking gun. I know they are built for completely different purposes, but how does the Savage compare with the TRG for accuracy out of the box? I've seen people claim .5 MOA or better out of the box with the TRG. Is that true? How about the Savage?

The best on the market in my opinion is the Finnish ASE Utra compact, availible in 30 cal it is very efficient, I have had them on many different calibres .223 etc and currently have one on my .338 which is quieter than anything else I have ever tried.

I did come accross ASE Utra a few days ago, but I wasn't sure if they were good. Found out today that they are actually owned by Sako, so I imagine they are. I was looking at the S7 for the TRG 22 in .308 since it has the highest sound suppression. I know it's bigger than the compact, but that doesn't bother me since I only plan to shoot this gun at the range and don't plan on lugging it around in the field. How long can I expect the suppressor to last? I know they wear out, but will it at least last as long as the barrel on the gun or will I have to replace it sooner? Also, you mentioned that the barrel will rust if I leave it on? Why is that?

The info you guys have provided got me started in the right direction on scopes, but I'm still not sure what magnification I should get. I figure the more the better since I want to eventually shoot to 1k, but then I see people using smaller magnifications at that distance. What should I consider in this regard?

Also, what's the difference between mil dot and MOA reticles/adjustment knowbs?

Again, I appreciate all the help. I know this is a lot of questions, and I appreciate your patience with a noob like me

 

[Kenny474]

As far as Savage target rifle accuracy, Team Savage seems to win enough medals to make me believe they're accurate. The few I have seen will get .5MOA or better out of the box, and better with a simple bedding job. Bozo699 just won his division at a match (maybe came in second?) with a Savage he just purchased recently. They seem to do very well for a factory rifle. I don't think they can be touched by any rifle in their price range. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. (the Sako is nearly double the cost of a Savage, Sako:$2850-$3450 Savage:$1300-$1800)

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/08/team-savage-does-well-in-can-am-fullbore-matches/

 

[UK]

Hi, as far as the S mod goes, great bit of kit, a supressor wearing out? the lighter units can suffer from flame cutting/erosion of the baffles due to the material they use, a steel mod-stainless or carbon-well Ive never heard of one wearing out as long as they are maintained correctly, the BR Toute unit rusts terribly if you do not spray it every time it is used an there have been many complaints about them here, but that is simply because people do not look after them properly. A moderator can work use during a shooting session, the best gunsmiths will machine the thread to exactly match the one in the moderator, the sloppier the thread the quicker they can work loose, this inevitably leads to a bullet striking a baffle and the mod goes in the bin. The mod once used will contain the acidic residues in the propellant mixed with condensate from the gas cooling effect, this liquid will run down the barrel if the gun if left standing upright and cause bad pitting in the barrel, the thread will also corrode and this can lead to the mod locking onto the thread on the muzzle, the only repair is to chop of an inch at the muzzle and have it re-threaded.
Get some copper slip or similar high temperature grease that does not break down with heat, apply liberally to the moderator thread and or the barrel thread and clean and re-apply after every shooting session. This will enable you to store the gun with the mod on if you must do so, but make sure the muzzle is facing down when storing. Hope this answers ytour questions.

 

[UK]

forgot to mention you will get carbon building up in the mod from the propellant, after a while if you do not clean the mod it will dislodge and come out the rear end of the muzzle when you tap it on a hard surface, when we first started using mods about 10 years ago we all thought this was rust and panicked, the way to stop this buildup is to spray aerosol light oil/rust preventer into the mod after every use, I use Napier VP90 or WD40 and I have never had this problem since, be careful though I have heard some spray oils with low ignition temperatures can actually ignite.