Some 9mm data weirdness?

[brokeasajoke]

I'm not after +p though my Kahr is rated. I carry Winchester USA Ready hex tip in it. These are going to be plinkers.

 

[RegionRat]

I'm not after +p though my Kahr is rated. I carry Winchester USA Ready hex tip in it. These are going to be plinkers.

I have had to teach folks to load. In the last few years, the circumstances have increased the requests from friends. Some of them were complete rookies, but some had been shooting a long time and just needed to learn to load.

These sessions always started with something simple like 38 Special or 9mm or both. One would think that is simple, till you look at how far and wide the range of data runs for those cartridges.

Philosophically, you can take either one of those cartridges from very mild to +P+ etc. Even if the new loader says that just want practice ammo, one could read for a whole evening on the debates over what the definition of plinking or practice ammo is supposed to be in terms of muzzle energy or velocity for a given weight of bullet.

There is no single authority or right answer to the question, but if you read long enough and boil it down based on factory ammo that you like, then it starts to look more clear.

I then share with them some of the recent philosophy from competition venues with a view toward what a "standard" load would look like for those cartridges. The concept of Power Factor can be used to describe the velocity for a given bullet weight and we go from there.

Each barrel and length can have an effect on the final charge, but at least having some velocity goal as a starting point tends to make the job less stressful for the rookies.

For example, if they say Federal American Eagle 115 grain 9mm is a fair standard, then we go shoot that in their rigs and then try to match it up with their components in terms of velocity. That ends up being roughly 1200 FPS out of a G34 or a little less out of shorter rigs.

If they have the time and inclination to learn more, we spend some time with colder or hotter loads to explore the reliability of their particular equipment. A 38 Special revolver is much easier to start with since it is not sensitive to energy or feed issues, but even then rookies and even experienced folks are shocked at the wide range of choices when they set out.

Get an experienced mentor if at all possible and start doing your homework in terms of muzzle velocity for the given bullet weights you plan to try. The task is not impossible without a chronograph, but a chronograph is a very important part of how I teach handgun loading. YMMV

 

[Brians356]

... from what I have seen from past law enforcement at shooting ranges...most cant hit the broad side of a barn. No disrespect...

"No disrespect..." Now that's funny right there. Wait, was that your take on a "backhanded compliment"?
-

 

[Brians356]

I'm not after +p though my Kahr is rated. I carry Winchester USA Ready hex tip in it. These are going to be plinkers.

From what I just learned, you'll enjoy plinking more if you can somehow eke 1400 fps out of those 115s. A lot more recoil, but then "What price accuracy?"
-

 

[Brians356]

No disrespect to law enforcement..they have a rough job. Glad and thankful for their service. I grew up on a club that had civilian and police ranges. I watched them shoot..my father ran the range. As stated they aren't very accurate for most part...take it for what it's worth. Truth hurts...you want me to tell you how the FBI shot the clubhouse too?

Not defending LE marksmanship, so why would you feel the need? But your insistence on "no disrespect" while dissing them relentlessly remains hilarious! Do you usually get a pass that way?
-

 

[6BRA]

But extra velocity is likely detrimental in defense loads, since most 9mm bullets today are designed to a constrained velocity window, to minimize pass-through. The available 115-gr factory defense loads all max out at less than 1200 fps, some at less than 1100, and nearly all meet the FBI penetration standard of 12 to 18 inches at those velocities, while expanding impressively. The excellent Speer 115 Gold Dot load runs at 1143 (avg) in published tests.
-

Where did the OP mention defense loads or FBI testing?

 

[6BRA]

.050 of seating depth on same load....can change things quickly.

 

[brokeasajoke]

.050 of seating depth on same load....can change things quickly.

Wow that bullet is rocking! I guess with power pistol we can reach these speeds.

 

[6BRA]

Wow that bullet is rocking! I guess with power pistol we can reach these speeds.

An early 70s Sierra manual will yield a better load than Power Pistol. Although PP is good.

 

[brokeasajoke]

An early 70s Sierra manual will yield a better load than Power Pistol. Although PP is good.

What powder? I've got some Herco, unique, and bullseye still in cardboard canister.

 

[brokeasajoke]

4.5 titegroup 1070 fps
4.7 titegroup 1069 fps
Kahr 3.5" barrel. Hodgdon lists 1135 out of Thier test barrel for a gold dot HP. Brass was as clean coming out as it went in so it's sealing good