SOLD items on this website

[brad6ppc]

I have only been a part of this web site for a short time but seem to be having problems.I have tried to buy some things listed in the classified ads only to be lied to.I send an email saying I would buy the item for sale and have the person reply back that it was mine and then when I email back they tell me that they sold it to someone else.I try to get back to people as quick as possible but I do have to work to make a living and cannot sit in front the computer all day long.I was wondering if maybe there was some kind of time limit that I missed on making deals on this site or if someone out there is PMing these guys with some better deal after the item is sold.I have been in shooting sports for over 25 years and have done deals with a casual hand shake,a nod of the head or an OK its sold.I had an FFL for many years,have participated in the gun show cicuits and have bought and sold on ebay and Gunbroker,brad6ppc) with no problem like I am have had with the last few deals on 6br.I understand that a person will always run into some low life that just wants to make a deal but I think in the circle of shooting sports we have to do something to make all the honest people out there aware of these bottom feeders.My family and myself have given hundreds of hours to the shooting sports to help keep it strong in a society that just wants to take it away and I think we need this on these web sites now before it gets out of hand.Just a little feedback from you guys out there would help.I have vented now so if you guys would tell me how it works I listen with an open mind.Thank you, brad6ppc

 

[fdshuster]

brad6ppc: I understand your frustration, and for that reason hesitate to make any "deals" on-line. There are a lot of good people out there, the vast majority, I hope), but always a small percentage of "others" as well/ would be my luck to run into one of the "others". Over the years I've bought, sold and traded with friends from my 2 clubs membership rolls,, together, well over 1500 members) and have always come away with good feelings, on both sides. Can't beat personal contact, and a handshake. Anytime I make a sale to a friend and/or club member, it is always with a money-back return policy, no questions asked, if not completely satisfied. I've yet to have anyone demand their money back.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Brad: Sorry to hear of your frustrations but like my momma always told me "It takes all kinds to make a world".
I think the fact that 6mmBR.com is so wide open makes it easy for bottom feeders,like you called them) to get in and do the type of things you mentioned.
I like the idea of a handshake and a nod on the head. There's still a few folks like that out there. More than you might guess.
I saw a post a few days ago about one of the members buying a stock and missed the fact that it wasn't inletted until after he committed to buying it. He bought it anyway because "he said he would".
To me, that's a man of his word.
You might think of it another way. Maybe the "deal" you were looking at wasn't such a good deal afterall?
Hang in there. There's still some good folks out there.
Honesty and integrity will never go out of style!
And I might add, "There's no life like low life".

 

[NorCalMikie]

Like I said, "There's no life like low life" and honesty and integrity will never go out of style!
Some folks will look you in the eye, shake your hand with one hand and pick your pocket with the other! It takes all kinds!
The scums of the world know who they are. I think "integrity" is the key word and that is taught! Some folks will never have it!

 

[Forum Boss]

I certainly like fdshuster's policy. I, likewise, have always tried, when selling a gun, to find a "good home" for it with a fellow local shooter.

Back to the issue at hand. I do see a potential problem and I'm not sure how to deal with it. I've noticed that many folks are listing items on multiple web sites... here, Gunbroker, Benchrest Classifieds. Someone sees the ad and posts "I'll take it". But the seller doesn't see that for awhile and sells it to somebody else first.

I will say that problem isn't limited to us. You see the problem with newspaper classifieds, Craigslist, and I've even had eBay sellers "flake out" because they sold their item somewhere else.

If anyone has any good ideas, I'm "all ears". I fear though that if we even go to "$1,one dollar) classifieds", the vast majority of sellers wouldn't bother--some guys ARE that cheap.

The other issue that's starting to concern me is the "Semi-pros" who are listing regular inventory on a repeat basis for sale. In fairness, these "home dealers" should be purchasing a banner ad. Our FREE classifieds are NOT intended to be for regular commercial sellers.

 

[rayjay]

It's just the nature of the beast [ the beast being the internet AND modern society ].

On one 'local' hunting/fishing/fellowship site I an on pretty regular there is a HUGE number of 'members' that only post of the Swap and Shop forum.

Most of them are looking to steal something and resell it. I have gotten to where I look at their profile and see where their posts are. If 99% of the person's posts are on the Swap and Shop I know what I am dealing with [ aka, a parasite ].

When a deal goes awry I have found it's best to just say to yourself,'ok, wasn't meant to be, I still gots my money' and just forget about it. I have gotten stuck with enough mis-described stuff that it's easy for me to assume that I am better off without it anyway

 

[457ciSBC]

From time to time I've purchased a few things from this site. I agree with Rayjay and the Moderator, you have the same issues if the media that was used a local newspaper and local classifieds.

I understand your frustration, but why worry about something that you have no control over, someone else's skewed value system. If no funds were lost, consider yourself lucky and move on.

Personally, if we are going to add code to the website I would rather it be toward info expanding the core of the website, accurate rifles vs. code for feedback about sellers in the classifieds. Afterall, the classifieds are a sideline courtesy.

In God we trust and Caveat Emptor

Mike

 

[280man]

I have sold a lot of gear on this website. I very often have the items listed on SnipersHide at the same time and when something sells I look at the time of the post or PM and give it to whomever was first.

Moderator, You might want to have a post that tells everyone what you intend for this classified section to be

some ideas I have would be
1. For sellers limit it to people that are contributing to the forum in other ways say with a min post count of 50
2. Make them fill out a complete profile
3. make it a requirement to be $$$ contributor to the forum
4. make a good/bad guy list no opinion just facts and if some one gets 3 bad deals Axe them

 

[Forum Boss]

280man,

You've come up with some very good ideas. I noticed that on SnipersHide they've instituted some of the points you mentioned.

Unfortunately the Forum software we have is very primitive and I don't know if I can set limits on access to the Classifieds, so long as they remain integrated with the Forum content.

One person has proposed something like people with 20+ posts get 5 free ads a year... after that there's a small fee.

I know this much, I personally am paying more and more each month for bandwidth and photo hosting. I think those who are selling a substantial volume of high ticket items should probably bear some of the cost.

Good Guy/Bad Guy List
This could be implemented and probably would be the easiest to do. There would have to be some guidelines, such as no complaints until 3-4 weeks have passed. I've seen many examples of some guy who screamed he'd been ripped off and then it turns out the item was mis-delivered by UPS or a third-party FFL was to blame.

 

[rayjay]

When I saw the sling ads I wondered if you had some arrangment with the seller since his posts didn't get whacked instantly.

 

[280man]

That's another thought have a complete different section for commercial sales and charge accordingly
as to the 50 post limit I think they just monitor it and if they see a newbie posting for sale ads they delete it and send him a PM to nock that crap out or else

 

[Forum Boss]

That's another thought have a complete different section for commercial sales and charge accordingly
as to the 50 post limit I think they just monitor it and if they see a newbie posting for sale ads they delete it and send him a PM to nock that crap out or else

Rayjay,

That sling guy got under my skin. It was a tough call, but I let it go... for now.

#1 I actually encourage companies like Berger, Sinclair, Nightforce etc. to participate in the board and discuss product features, announce new developments etc. That's legitimate.

#2 It's OK for a small shop to say "Hey guys, here's what we sell, what do you think?"

But I think, in the case of the Sling guy that he's been posting the same promos, repeatedly, on numerous sites on the internet and I don't want to pay for bandwith to host his "commercials".

---

Re the idea of developing written guidelines for Ads--yes that is a timely and sensible idea. My only reluctance is, based on other FAQs/Instructions I've posted elsewhere in the Forum, most people don't read them, or chose to ignore what they read and then I'm burdened with monitoring posts as before.

 

[jthyttin]

One person has proposed something like people with 20+ posts get 5 free ads a year... after that there's a small fee.

This will create the problem of empty posts, or better still, posts full of nonsense.

You can't judge somebody's worth to the community by posts alone. You'd have to go into the content of the posts, and this poses very big problems. E.g. it's completely OK to ask simple questions realted to forum topics, but it's not OK to ask that same simple question 20 times a day...

 

[Forum Boss]

One person has proposed something like people with 20+ posts get 5 free ads a year... after that there's a small fee.

This will create the problem of empty posts, or better still, posts full of nonsense.

You can't judge somebody's worth to the community by posts alone. You'd have to go into the content of the posts, and this poses very big problems. E.g. it's completely OK to ask simple questions realted to forum topics, but it's not OK to ask that same simple question 20 times a day...

You raise a very good point. Some Forum members,including some Nat'l champions) don't post very often. But when they do, what they say is authoritative and important.

What qualifications, then, if any, should there be to post Classifieds. I like the suggestion that a Classified poster must post complete info, i.e. real name and phone number.

Also maybe there should be a requirement of disclosing if the same item is posted on multiple forums.

- - -

I certainly don't have the definitive answers and I appreciate your feedback.

It's just too bad I don't have a technological,software) solution on the plate that would integrate a separate, sophisticated Classifieds system into the Forum. To do that I would either have to a) run separate stand-alone software on a dedicated new server,expensive, big add'l burden), or b) acquire new Forum software operating on a new separate server, and migrate the entire forum,and all entries) to the new software. The "B" solution is pretty risky and could be quite expensive.

 

[jthyttin]

Paul, this is not directly related to Classifieds. It's more related to some other things happening recently:

If it's technically possible, you should consider recruiting additional moderators,volunteers). Everything cannot be done with technical restrictions etc.

Best solution would be to give the moderator rights only on certain forum. I'm sure at least a forum or two could be handled like this,like Varminter&Hunting or Competition for example).

You should give moderator rights only to people you have met in real life, or who are otherwise strongly recommended. It adds a certain amount of responsibility when you know people personally,=they know you).

In summary, this is your forum and you run it the way you see appropriate. I want to say that I trust your judgement 110% and I know the silent majority here does also.

As you said in other thread, people make mistakes and sometimes resources are so scarce that fast/difficult decisions should be made. And with unlimited resources some things would be done differently, but that's life.

P.S. Here in Finland many people are afraid to give their phone number,traceable to address) or address for initial contact when trading guns etc. There's sometimes not so honest people calling to buy guns without license etc.,in Finland license is required for purchase)

 

[Forum Boss]

If it's technically possible, you should consider recruiting additional moderators,volunteers). Everything cannot be done with technical restrictions etc.

Best solution would be to give the moderator rights only on certain forum. I'm sure at least a forum or two could be handled like this,like Varminter&Hunting or Competition for example).

That's a good idea. Jason does have "moderator" powers. I know other Forums have some "sub-moderators" who serve that function. The challenge is that just one post on just one thread can cause issues. There's a burn-out factor where people who offer to help quickly find out that it's no fun spending 10-20 hours a week reading every post to sniff out problems.

 

[PoachersPet]

As a long term solution the first step would be to upgrade the software. It would make the life easier from the start to manage this site.
www.phpbb.com
www.vbulletin.com

Me I am more into the PHPBB since it is open source, no charge for the software and upgraded about 4-5 times a year. This would give you the features your looking for.

vbulletin bulletin is also user friendly but there is a cost incured with this package.
Either package can be installed via remote for a small cost.

I host and own a forum myself, not as large as this one. It's not an easy task to manage one and you can't police your friends.

Why wait 15 days to get paid when there is paypal out there.