Small Changes for Large Results.

[Hoekight]

I’m not new to reloading, but I am pretty new to competitive reloading. I started shooting midrange f class with 6br’s and honestly that’s the easy button for beginners. Since then I’ve switched to a 7 prcw and although it was super easy to make shoot well, it wasn’t as simple as the BR’s. It’s a no turn chamber, I went the “easy” route (more on that in a minute). After getting all I could out of load testing, I’ve shot it a little while and won several club matches and finished second to another very good shooter several times. I was on here reading one night the argument about sorting primers and uniforming primer pockets. After thinking about it a couple of days I decided I was going to try it. I broke my own rule of trying 2 things at once. So I uniformed some primer pockets AND sorted my primers on the same pieces of brass. I don’t know which one it was and don’t care because my groups shrunk considerably at 600 yards. The vertical dispersion was almost cut in half. It might not help everyone’s setup, but it made a huge difference in mine. So now… all my brass has uniformed pockets and I weigh sort my primers. I know it’s not for everyone, but it made a difference on target in MY testing.

Fast forward a few weeks. I purchased some, couple times fired, Lapua prcw brass from someone I trust on here. When it got here my bushing wouldn’t size it because the necks had been turned slightly. I used a smaller bushing to get neck tension and shot it in my no-turn chamber this weekend. It shot the smallest groups my rifle has ever shot. So I turned a few pieces of my brass to the same size and I couldn’t believe what I had been leaving on the table. I never would have guessed turning brass for a no turn chamber would make a difference, but honestly I didn’t know better and here we are. I’m not above, or ashamed of new knowledge.

I made this post for this reason… although I’m not a new reloader, I am new to competitive reloading. For me, or any other person new to the competition world, from some of you more seasoned folks. What’s some of the simplest things that gained you accuracy or consistency in the reloading room. I know it’s not a one thing fits all. That’s evident by the whole weight sorting primers deal. But what’s something some of you will share that made your scores better that surprised you? Especially early in your journey of reloading for competitive shooting.
Blessings.
Dwayne

 

[FeMan]

Good for you for experimenting and finding a few things that worked for your setup! The only thing I can add is the experimenting seems to me to be an endless process. Every new cartridge, barrel, bullet lot, brass batch, powder lot, etc. seem to like something a little different than the last! Keep at it, especially the one-at-a-time part.

 

[JEFFPPC]

The best reason do not do something is....It's easy. Your thinking smart.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I’m not new to reloading, but I am pretty new to competitive reloading. I started shooting midrange f class with 6br’s and honestly that’s the easy button for beginners. Since then I’ve switched to a 7 prcw and although it was super easy to make shoot well, it wasn’t as simple as the BR’s. It’s a no turn chamber, I went the “easy” route (more on that in a minute). After getting all I could out of load testing, I’ve shot it a little while and won several club matches and finished second to another very good shooter several times. I was on here reading one night the argument about sorting primers and uniforming primer pockets. After thinking about it a couple of days I decided I was going to try it. I broke my own rule of trying 2 things at once. So I uniformed some primer pockets AND sorted my primers on the same pieces of brass. I don’t know which one it was and don’t care because my groups shrunk considerably at 600 yards. The vertical dispersion was almost cut in half. It might not help everyone’s setup, but it made a huge difference in mine. So now… all my brass has uniformed pockets and I weigh sort my primers. I know it’s not for everyone, but it made a difference on target in MY testing.

Fast forward a few weeks. I purchased some, couple times fired, Lapua prcw brass from someone I trust on here. When it got here my bushing wouldn’t size it because the necks had been turned slightly. I used a smaller bushing to get neck tension and shot it in my no-turn chamber this weekend. It shot the smallest groups my rifle has ever shot. So I turned a few pieces of my brass to the same size and I couldn’t believe what I had been leaving on the table. I never would have guessed turning brass for a no turn chamber would make a difference, but honestly I didn’t know better and here we are. I’m not above, or ashamed of new knowledge.

I made this post for this reason… although I’m not a new reloader, I am new to competitive reloading. For me, or any other person new to the competition world, from some of you more seasoned folks. What’s some of the simplest things that gained you accuracy or consistency in the reloading room. I know it’s not a one thing fits all. That’s evident by the whole weight sorting primers deal. But what’s something some of you will share that made your scores better that surprised you? Especially early in your journey of reloading for competitive shooting.
Blessings.
Dwayne

I've found those things you've done to improve has also worked for me real well too, even though I'm not a competitive shooter. But I do compete against my own numbers. I've learned a lot along the way since I started precision reloading. Some things make a dramatic difference, like with sorting primers; other things, like annealing or cleaning primer pockets after every firing. . . not so much.

A couple other things that has really helped my "scores" is getting really consistent neck tension and consistent seating depths. I found the best way to get consistent seating depths is by sorting my bullets by BTO where the comparator I use touches the ogive at the same place as my seating pin in my seating die. Since I jump my bullets .010" or greater, the typical BTO measurement is of no consequence. I guess along with that too is I use an arbor press and a Wilson InLine Seating Die that give me a good feel during seating.

Since I typically buy powder by the 8 lbs., I've learned to keep track of the moisture content as over time it changes and those changes can have significant affect. Living in a very dry climate, as I do, it's easy for the powders to loose some moisture over time (it can be just the opposite for those living is very humid climate). So, every time while I'm charging up a bunch of cases, I take readings of the humidity inside the bottle of powder using a Kestrel Drop and record the final reading at the end of my session. I've had to make changes in my seating depths when I see a change in just a few percentage points.

 

[Bill Rodolph]

Changing/experimenting with neck tension

 

[GDahlke64]

What was the overall neck clearance from brass to chamber?

 

[Bill Rodolph]

What was the overall neck clearance from brass to chamber?

.004"

 

[L.Sherm]

The 2 things that surprised me when I started doing all my load development at 650-700 yards was nk tension and going from .005 to .003 seating depth changes.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Changing/experimenting with neck tension

That’s what I’m wondering from the OP’s experience on finding this, was it the neck tension more than turning the brass necks for the positive improvement?

 

[Sandstorm]

I used to turn my necks and then one day decided to test not turning and as long as my neck tension
or bullet to brass contact stay'd the same the rounds shot just as flat at 600 and 1000 yds, with
no discernable deviation.....shot just as well.
Therefore one less process to do with this chambering...
and I realize it may not work the same with another caliber.......?

 

[Hoekight]

That’s what I’m wondering from the OP’s experience on finding this, was it the neck tension more than turning the brass necks for the positive improvement?

The Brass I have been using in my 7-6.5 prcw has a loaded neck diameter of .312 verses .3095 with the brass I bought. My reamer is a .319 no turn. I thought that was WAY too much clearance. But it shoots considerably better. In the photos number 6 was shot using the .312 brass today. Number 2 was shot today with the turned brass (.3095). Both shot @ 300 yards with 55.9 grains of N555 and sorted 180 hybrids. Neck tension was the same and I’ve shot each load individually to make sure I got the right neck tension for each batch of brass. They both liked .002 tension. Both 5 shot groups and this was the 5th time I’ve tested it this week and it’s repeated the results the same each time.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

The Brass I have been using in my 7-6.5 prcw has a loaded neck diameter of .312 verses .3095 with the brass I bought. My reamer is a .319 no turn. I thought that was WAY too much clearance. But it shoots considerably better. In the photos number 6 was shot using the .312 brass today. Number 2 was shot today with the turned brass (.3095). Both shot @ 300 yards with 55.9 grains of N555 and sorted 180 hybrids. Neck tension was the same and I’ve shot each load individually to make sure I got the right neck tension for each batch of brass. They both liked .002 tension. Both 5 shot groups and this was the 5th time I’ve tested it this week and it’s repeated the results the same each time.

That’s a very impressive comparison. I would have thought that .009+ clearance would be excessive too.

 

[Hoekight]

That’s a very impressive comparison. I would have thought that .009+ clearance would be excessive too.

It contradicts most everything I have read. I’m very new to neck turning, other than skim turning. I’ve read about the carbon signature (maybe I got that term right) being at a certain place for “proper” tolerance. IDK… I heard Cortina say “believe the target”. That excess room made my rifle a laser beam on paper. It might be a total reversal on the next barrel. Right now It gets carbon right to the shoulder and makes tiny groups. I’ve never shot 600 in a match. Ive shot 598 six times. Im praying it will give me those other 2 points. Sometime between now and my next match (12/20) I’m gonna shoot a practice match to see if it holds together for 3 strings. It might get too dirty who knows, this is all new to me.

 

[Fast14riot]

When I started precision loading I did everything imaginable to measure, sort, clean and notate about my ammo. As I got further along I started testing what I could do without. First thing to go was tumbling my brass. I use a dry brush in the necks and get a very consistent feel on the arbor press and groups stayed the same. Perfect, that saves a couple hours of loading time.

Next was bushings in the die. I was never happy with the little unsized portion of the neck. Removed the bushing (making it a body die) and went to a collet neck die after, which then eliminates neck thickness as a variable in neck tension since diameter is set from inside the neck. A mandrel die does the same thing, you just need to size the necks past where you want them.

Next was learning to "Costco shop" for components by buying kegs of powder, bullets at a minimum of 1000 at a time (more if I can afford it), primers by the case, barrels get ordered when a new one is put on. Eliminating lot numbers as variables.

Then came fussing over charge weight to the kernel. I use a scale I can measure that small with, and my acceptable charge tolerance is still less than 0.1gr, but its no longer a zero tolerance.

Last has been along the lines of not changing variables, but not changing chamberings. I've been shooting the same cartridge in competition for nearly a decade. Learning your cartridge goes a very long way toward consistency. It has been continuous testing across several barrels, actions, stocks, brass, bullets to give me a wide knowledge base for my chosen round.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

I’m not new to reloading, but I am pretty new to competitive reloading. I started shooting midrange f class with 6br’s and honestly that’s the easy button for beginners. Since then I’ve switched to a 7 prcw and although it was super easy to make shoot well, it wasn’t as simple as the BR’s. It’s a no turn chamber, I went the “easy” route (more on that in a minute). After getting all I could out of load testing, I’ve shot it a little while and won several club matches and finished second to another very good shooter several times. I was on here reading one night the argument about sorting primers and uniforming primer pockets. After thinking about it a couple of days I decided I was going to try it. I broke my own rule of trying 2 things at once. So I uniformed some primer pockets AND sorted my primers on the same pieces of brass. I don’t know which one it was and don’t care because my groups shrunk considerably at 600 yards. The vertical dispersion was almost cut in half. It might not help everyone’s setup, but it made a huge difference in mine. So now… all my brass has uniformed pockets and I weigh sort my primers. I know it’s not for everyone, but it made a difference on target in MY testing.

Fast forward a few weeks. I purchased some, couple times fired, Lapua prcw brass from someone I trust on here. When it got here my bushing wouldn’t size it because the necks had been turned slightly. I used a smaller bushing to get neck tension and shot it in my no-turn chamber this weekend. It shot the smallest groups my rifle has ever shot. So I turned a few pieces of my brass to the same size and I couldn’t believe what I had been leaving on the table. I never would have guessed turning brass for a no turn chamber would make a difference, but honestly I didn’t know better and here we are. I’m not above, or ashamed of new knowledge.

I made this post for this reason… although I’m not a new reloader, I am new to competitive reloading. For me, or any other person new to the competition world, from some of you more seasoned folks. What’s some of the simplest things that gained you accuracy or consistency in the reloading room. I know it’s not a one thing fits all. That’s evident by the whole weight sorting primers deal. But what’s something some of you will share that made your scores better that surprised you? Especially early in your journey of reloading for competitive shooting.
Blessings.
Dwayne

Your rifle must be put together pretty well, good components. Great news.

 

[Sandstorm]

it’s repeated the results the same each time.

Id certainly go with what you found and see if it stays together for 60 rounds in a Match.
never dismiss what the target tells you.

 

[Shooter13]

I shoot a 6PPC no turn, actually two of them, one I use Lapua brass and it has to be turned even with a .274 neck, the Alpha brass works well in a .273 and is a true no turn so as we go on this journey hopefully we continue to learn. I'm actually going to skim the Alpha brass (maybe 20 pieces) just to test, it will go from a .0138 to a .0132 thickness per wall. We'll see.

 

[SeabeeKen]

One thing I've noticed since I started shooting UBR is most guys say the same thing as to what powder, primer and bullets shoot best. I ALWAYS test MY rifles and think outside the box. I was told I HAD to shoot custom bullets to win, I won with Berger. I was told I had to shoot N-133, I found a more accurate powder for mine. I was told Fed 205M primers were king, I found them second best in my rifle. Word of mouth is a good starting point but never a replacement for testing. Consistency, Consistency, Consistency

 

[Hoekight]

.Last has been along the lines of not changing variables, but not changing chamberings. I've been shooting the same cartridge in competition for nearly a decade. Learning your cartridge goes a very long way toward consistency. It has been continuous testing across several barrels, actions, stocks, brass, bullets to give me a wide knowledge base for my chosen round.

I started with a 6br in competition and wanted a bigger bullet for some of the wind I have to deal with. Switched to a 7 prcw and I’m 850 rounds in the first barrel. I don’t see me switching from there. I really, really like that cartridge and I will probably like it more after learning all the nuances a few barrels in. Although I am waiting on a reamer for a wildcat I want to play with but it’s not gonna be my competition gun.

If you don’t kind me asking what kind of competition do you shoot and the caliber?

 

[Hoekight]

One thing I've noticed since I started shooting UBR is most guys say the same thing as to what powder, primer and bullets shoot best. I ALWAYS test MY rifles and think outside the box. I was told I HAD to shoot custom bullets to win, I won with Berger. I was told I had to shoot N-133, I found a more accurate powder for mine. I was told Fed 205M primers were king, I found them second best in my rifle. Word of mouth is a good starting point but never a replacement for testing. Consistency, Consistency, Consistency

While there are certainly generalizations to start with, like you I have found through testing that not all the standards are “standard”. I test a lot and I actually love to test as much as I love to shoot competitions. And I have found some neat things. Yesterday I found something else pretty crazy. If it repeats itself when I go back today it’s gonna make me have some more questions.