slamfire in Rem M700

[ghermitage]

In the Rem M700, does part of the cocking happen when the bolt handle is lifted? If so, I guess slamfire could occur even before the bolt handle is turned down at all. I am taking it as a given that it could happen as the bolt handle is being turned down if the trigger is set too light.

Has anyone here seen or heard of slamfire in the 700, with two situations being of interest
,1) before the bolt handle is turned down at all;
,2) while the handle is being turned down;
and what where the results?

The reason this comes up as a concern is that a hunting buddy has adjusted his M700 trigger with a consequence that under actual field use moving the safety to fire sometimes causes the gun to discharge without the trigger being touched. This doesn't now happen under test situations, and the difference is either in the field the air is cold or moist, or that live round versus empty case makes a difference. Now if moving the saftey acted as a trigger pull, that would be a known and manageable problem until he sees fit to take the thing to a gunsmith, but I am concerned that there may be other consequences of this trigger adjustment, such as slamfire under the same particular field conditions i.e. cold or moist.

 

[expiper]

He needs to learn how to adjust a trigger "quickly" ....before he kills someone and blames Remington....there are lots of threads and articles on how to do it....THAT GUN IS DEADLY...GET IT ADJUSTED ...RITE NOW....Roger

 

[ghermitage]

Sure ... my strategy here is to persuade him to do that by pointing yet more consequences of this adjustment.

This hunting buddy is usually far from being an idiot, but the other guy he goes shooting with is his best friend from school days and he has not faced that this friend is a complete fool. This complete fool has just started shooting and declared confidence in his ability to correctly adjust a trigger, and was allowed to conduct the adjustment. There is just no way I would go hunting with this friend of his ...

 

[Tommie]

Get some more sear engagement adjusted into your trigger. Quick. Of course, the over-travel screw may currently be turned in too far - which would preclude adding sear engagement as is. I'd also guess that the pull-weight set screw has been turned out too far.

Your friend needs to stay away from triggers.

Tom

 

[ghermitage]

your trigger

his trigger

Your friend

His friend, please. Even at that distance, this folly is embarassing enough.

Thanks for the specific advice. It is one of the many situations where a fool must be allowed to save face, even though the folly may get someone's face blown off.

Would still like to hear of adjustments leading to slamfires in M700s.

 

[2knives]

Several things can be happening. #1 the trigger is not properly adjusted. #2 The trigger could be fowled. #3 He could be hitting the trigger when he closes the bolt without knowing it.
I've never trusted Remington's safety, I had one that seemed to always work it's self to the firing point. So for the last 25 or more years I've never closed the bolt until ready to fire, even on custom actions. The firing pin lifts when the bolt it pulled up and a little more when the bolt is closed. Cold weather does affect the trigger if there is any oil in it. Anyone who hunts with a light trigger in cold weather can be assured they are asking for trouble.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Have your friend stop by and read this thread....

Setting a Rem trigger is not difficult, but if it has ever dropped the pin when messing with safety, it is set to light, and is dangerous.

 

[NateHaler]

The reason this comes up as a concern is that a hunting buddy has adjusted his M700 trigger with a consequence that under actual field use moving the safety to fire sometimes causes the gun to discharge without the trigger being touched.

Adjusting the Rem 700 trigger is simple and safe, for a careful and safety conscious person. It takes about 10,ten) minutes.

Have "your friend" turn the spring weight screw back out a turn, and with an unloaded rifle cock the rifle a dozen times in a row, with the muzzle down. If it stays cocked, as it should, then gently bounce the unloaded, cocked rifle on its recoil pad on a carpet floor, from say a height of a few inches. If it stays cocked, as it should, then "your friend" has fixed the problem.

If the rifle doesn't stay cocked, i.e. of the firing pin falls, then the spring weight screw needs to come back out a bit more. In general, this is the ONLY adjustment screw in the trigger assembly that should be tweaked. It's the lower of the two screws in the front of the trigger assembly, as the rifle would be orientated while held in a normal firing position.

When factory Rem triggers are adjusted below 2 pounds or so, they can indeed be unsafe unless springs and parts are changed out by an expert. Get that trigger above two pounds, and it should be just fine.

Anybody knowingly carrying a rifle, let alone a loaded rifle, in such condition is a fool. And you'd be wise to avoid any sort of shooting activities with "your friend".

 

[terryb]

Nate,you have the instructions reversed,you need to turn the spring wt. screw in,and increase the pull wt,this should fix his problem if the sear engagement is not set too close

 

[Preacher]

A 700 Remington will not normally slam fire unless the trigger has been adjusted after it left the factory.
Some of the 10# plus factory settings are hard on a person used to yanking on a Jewell...
Very few 700 Remington triggers can be considered safe under 2 1/2 #'s....

 

[billmo]

He needs to re-visit the trigger-sear engagement screw first. The one upper screw on the stock side. This screw needs to be turned counter-clockwise until the trigger will not fall. Then the two lower screws may be adjusted for over travel and actual pull pressure. Some of the Rem triggers just simply will not adjust down to where I would call it BR pressure. Put a rifle basics or something aftermarket in it if that is what you are looking for. But, BY ALL MEANS STOP SHOOTING THIS RIFLE UNTIL IT IS REPAIRED.YOU CANNOT RE-CALL A SHOT FIRE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU NEVER MEANT IT TO GO OFF. GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE. CARELESS PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. Bill

 

[ghermitage]

Have "your friend" turn the spring weight screw back out a turn, and with an unloaded rifle cock the rifle a dozen times in a row, with the muzzle down. If it stays cocked, as it should, then gently bounce the unloaded, cocked rifle on its recoil pad on a carpet floor, from say a height of a few inches. If it stays cocked, as it should, then "your friend" has fixed the problem.

I can report that this was done, as my friend is a reliable witness to his friend doing just that. However, this test is no guide to what happens after the gun has been exposed to cold or moist air for several hours.

My friend even took the thing to a very experienced shooter who happens to work in a gun store, who said it was almost right and tweaked it a bit. I suggested that it was time to take it a real gunsmith to have it certified safe or have a new trigger fitted, but the credentials of the very experienced shooter are so good that I am not getting much traction there even after the safety failed.

 

[ghermitage]

I've never trusted Remington's safety, I had one that seemed to always work it's self to the firing point.

Do you mean it would move closer firing the longer it was cocked, so that if the safety was on, you wouldn't know it had reached firing point until you moved the safety to "fire"?

Cold weather does affect the trigger if there is any oil in it. Anyone who hunts with a light trigger in cold weather can be assured they are asking for trouble.

That sounds very much like the situation.

 

[treeman]

This is just my opinion but no one should not try to make a rem. factory trigger lighter than 2-1/2 lbs unless they are absolutly positive that it is safe and know how to test for saftey. treeman

 

[ghermitage]

This is just my opinion but no one should try to make a rem. factory trigger lighter than 2-1/2 lbs unless they are absolutly positive that it is safe and know how to test for saftey. treeman

Testing for safety is an interesting point in this situation. Testing this one indoors doesn't mean anything about safety. I guess he could leave it outdoors on the coldest night he expects to encounter in the field and then test, but such a test doesn't strike me as certain enough.

 

[JayIdaho]

To answer your original two questions: A slam fire cannot happen as the bolt is being lowered because the cocking piece will hit the cocking cam before the firing pin hits the primer. It cannot slam fire when the bolt is in the open position, the cocking piece prevents firing pin movement.
You can get a slam fire from slamming the bolt closed with vigor. As the bolt handle hits the receiver or stock, it can cause an improperly adjusted trigger to release.
If the firing pin fell when the safety was released somebody did something very wrong to the trigger asjustments. A big red flag should go up to any reasonably intelligent person that something drastic is wrong. At this time, an IQ test is not required to own a gun,or a chainsaw or motor vehicle, etc).
I'd stay well away from the folks involved and the rifle involved until the problem is addressed by an experienced trigger tuner. Some of them completely understand the mechanisms and can do a great job of optimizing performance. Some are hacks that do not realize their incompetence.

 

[kitsap]

Not to beat this to death too much - but a gun firing upon closing the bolt is not a slam fire - even if you "slam the bolt with vigor". ,How much force is "Vigor"?)...
... it is a misfunction.

Thank you!

 

[ghermitage]

Not to beat this to death too much - but a gun firing upon closing the bolt is not a slam fire - even if you "slam the bolt with vigor". ,How much force is "Vigor"?)...
... it is a misfunction.

Fine. Shall we call it "the terrible misfunction without a name"?

 

[ghermitage]

The information content of which is there is no name for it.

A name should be created for it to facilitate communication, and disseminated via the mechanisms you describe.

Any suggestions?

It often happens that a word has a somewhat different meaning in a different context. In the context of bolt-action, why not use "slamfire" to refer to ignition dependent on the speed of closing the bolt? The meaning is clear.