rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Dave Bruno in Dayton PA...
Skim Bedding V-Block: How Much Pressure To Use In Setting?
- Thread starter Winny94
- Start date
Dave Bruno in Dayton PA...
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Some do but most dont since they change barrels so often
I'm confused after reading these posts. If we don't want contact of the action with either the v-block or the pillars, why use them, just bed the action in the epoxy? Regardless of which way we bed, as soon as you tighten the action there is some type of "stress" applied to the action. If you're gluing the action in and not tightening the screws I would say it's stress free. If we have two pillars and tighten the action to them, then fill in the rest with epoxy we've "stressed" the action just like it's going to be when tightened down and added the extra support from the epoxy.
Just my thoughts.
Chris
Just my thoughts.
Chris
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Edd
Gold $$ Contributor
McMillan no longer offers a bedding service. When they did, and if you consider them "top tier", they didn't let the pillars contact the action.
Alex Wheeler builds good shooting rifles and he has said, in this thread, that they shouldn't touch.
Most of us consider benchrest, short, mid, or long range to be the last word in precision. I wonder how many wins or records set by those shooting rifles bedded by the "best" as claimed. How many were done with Alex's bedded rifles and by others who don't participate in the errornet?
When I was shooting benchrest the in 80s, after a big match equipment list was usually produced including who did the bedding. Don't know if they still do, as I don't keep up with stool shooting any longer.
Winny94, this is not slam about your claim, more of a curiosity.
This thread caught my attention as a couple of my rifles need to be bedded, one is a H&S with the aluminum block. I have only bedded 1 rifle since a guy named AJ Walker walked me through bedding process in the 80s when we were using G10s for pillars. Actually on this one rifle, M40/24 contour 300WM, I took advise from Alex and Mike Bryant.
When I was shooting benchrest the in 80s, after a big match equipment list was usually produced including who did the bedding. Don't know if they still do, as I don't keep up with stool shooting any longer.
Winny94, this is not slam about your claim, more of a curiosity.
This thread caught my attention as a couple of my rifles need to be bedded, one is a H&S with the aluminum block. I have only bedded 1 rifle since a guy named AJ Walker walked me through bedding process in the 80s when we were using G10s for pillars. Actually on this one rifle, M40/24 contour 300WM, I took advise from Alex and Mike Bryant.
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The last bedding job I had done does not have pillar contact, but he did it in a way I haven't seen before.
He cut down the pillar's OD (at the top) so it only touched the action right near the bolt hole, creating a stepped pillar. Once the bedding cured, he came back and milled down the part of pillar that touched the action, which removed the shoulder he put in initially. There's no direct pillar contact.
I put a dial indicator on the barrel and watched for movement while tightening the action screws, there's no stress.
He cut down the pillar's OD (at the top) so it only touched the action right near the bolt hole, creating a stepped pillar. Once the bedding cured, he came back and milled down the part of pillar that touched the action, which removed the shoulder he put in initially. There's no direct pillar contact.
I put a dial indicator on the barrel and watched for movement while tightening the action screws, there's no stress.
This thread is very interesting, listening and learning. Also, book marked Dusty's thread, check it out.
a-quick-bedding-tutorial.3994337
Tim
a-quick-bedding-tutorial.3994337
Tim
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
When the epoxy shrinks (it will guaranteed) then your action is only sitting on pillars and free floating above the bedding. Its so very easy to check after a year- you dont even need any specialized tools besides your fingernail. I have posted many pictures of some of the “top tier website’s bed jobs” with a dial indicator showing just how much the pillars stick up. In reality the top tier bed jobs have no pillars and no screws to induce stress. With a long range type barrel hanging out the end you’d use 1 or maybe 2 screws and ideally cast those pillars in place as you glue the action in. I test everything and dont take anybodys word for anything once i figure out a way to run a foolproof test. Some things are easier than others to test and you just have to rely on the word of somebody that teaches you if you cant test. Gather as much data as you can find, add it all up and throw out the ES and go with it if it works
Thanks for the explanation (and i hope i dont come across as argumentative - im not a 'smith, not a builder, never claimed to be, just trying to understand the logic and potential issues).
So 2 questions come up:
1) Is there any concern for "compression" of the bedding material? Is the bedding material not "softer" than aluminum pillars/blocks? What torque do you recommend in the bedding technique you advocate?
2) Just to be clear, we're both referring to bedding the action so its still removable - not "glued in", yea?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Jb weld (which should be your minimum standard) has compression strength of like 4000psi. Youre not going to compress it or an aluminum pillar. Marine tex and devcon 10110 has at least twice that i believe. Aluminum is not going to shrink so when your bedding shrinks .001 or more you cant make your action touch it. When i talk about pillars im talking about a screwed in not glued action. Pillars are important when the stock material will expand and contract such as wood to keep your screws at the original torque, so the stock doesnt expand and put extra stress on your action. Pillars dont hurt anywhere else and have come to be expected so you see them in all stock materials as a “rule”.
skeeljc
Gold $$ Contributor
You will need to retain the barrel/action in the stock somehow during bedding because the center of mass of the stock and the center of mass of the barreled action are both outside of the bedding area. So no matter if you bed right side up or with the rifle upside down you will need to support something. I like to wrap tape around the barrel to support it in the front of the barrel channel. Then the barreled action will sit in the bedding by just gravity.
I used Devcon epoxy to build up pillars on my 40X HP match rifle, used surgical tubing to hold it to the stock, took 2 tries to get it right. Rifle shot sub moa, but how do you bed without anything holding the action to the stock?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Gravity holds it in place, stress free
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
No reason. Its done all the time. It was mentioned earlier
So do people just use pillars because it’s expected? Do you still bed with pillars? I’m asking because I am about to try bedding a stock for the first time and I don’t want to add unnecessary steps.
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Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Every situation is different. I even use carbon fiber pillars and titanium devcon with microballoons sometimes. I use brass pillars on occasion. I use 3/4” aluminum and 1/4”id stainless tubing on occasion. You just gotta make it fit the situation
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