Skim bedding, necessary?

[kcTbear]

What's your opinion on skim bedding? My Rem. 700 is pillar bedded into a Manner's stock and am wondering if skim bedding would improve accuracy by any margin, or would this be an unnecessary cost/project?

6.5x47, 1:9 twist, 25", straight taper.
Been to the range once with my break-in loads and shot about .5 @ 100yds, pretty good I'd say with my first load, but at 200yds it widened to about 1.5-2".
Or, what may affect 200yd accuracy to expand from 1/2moa to 1moa?

Thanks for your comments.

 

[ChrisNZ]

... what may affect 200yd accuracy to expand from 1/2moa to 1moa?

Too small a sample for a start ;D

It's generally the opposite that's reported, ie "yawing" bullets producing so-so groups at 100yds but tightening up at 300yds. Can't say my experience matches that but it's what's sometimes reported..

Chris-NZ

 

[BoydAllen]

The term skim bedding usually refers to bedding that is done with a minimum of material being removed, in most cases, just the interior finish, so the bedding will adhere to the stock. This is done without pillars, and is a less expensive alternative for for tuning up a rifle when someone does not want to spend the full price of a pillar bedding job.

All of the pillar bedding jobs that I have looked at (other than factory so called pillar bedding) have been done so that in addition to the pillars, the entire surface of the action, in the area that was bedded was bedded as well. Sometimes this is the entire underside of the action, others use what I call bridge bedding, where the receiver ring and tang areas are bedded, but there is clearance between.

Could you post a picture of the bedding in your stock? I find your question confusing, since the usual pillar bedding job would not leave any room for skim bedding, since it would already be bedded in the same areas, with the addition of pillars.

 

[M700]

Normally when I'm shooting an accurate rifle, and my groups spread out a bit... It's my fault.

 

[BoydAllen]

One more thing..
If you are not using wind flags, that could very easily explain the difference.

 

[kcTbear]

Thank you for the education, and yes it does appear that I am new to the terminology for what I'm trying to express.
I will take photos later this evening if time permits and can try to convey my intent better.

The action has two pillars installed by Manners one for each of the action screws. Aside from this there is no additional bedding material on the stock.

I understand that this is such a small sample to which to guage accuracy, especially on my first and only visit to the range. I suppose my inquiry comes from the half in groups at 100 and expanding 2.5 times at 200. I would like to agree that it is the shooter in this case. I have since invested in a more sturdy rest, so we'll see how that will improve things.
No wind flags were available, but also didn't see any variance of windage, just eradic grouping.

Thanks again for the positive responses and education!

 

[BoydAllen]

Stock manufacturers, like Manners, Kelbly, and in the past, Six, may install pillars, without doing the final bedding. This is because they are set up to do it while making the stock, so that it does not take much to do, if the customer requests it, or the design of the stock is such that pillars will be required no matter what the bedding system to be used when the stock is fitted to the action. It may be that your stock needs bedding. Did you send the barreled action to the stock maker for bedding? If you did not, then it probably needs bedding. Why don't you call Tom Manners and ask what was done, and what he recommends. Also, I wouldn't have just anyone do the bedding. I would follow the manufacturers recommendation as to bedding material, and might even ask who has done good work on their stocks, or send the rifle to them for bedding if they do that. They may not. In any case, a picture or two should tell the story as to what you have.

 

[camac]

The term skim bedding usually refers to bedding that is done with a minimum of material being removed, in most cases, just the interior finish, so the bedding will adhere to the stock. This is done without pillars, and is a less expensive alternative for for tuning up a rifle when someone does not want to spend the full price of a pillar bedding job.

All of the pillar bedding jobs that I have looked at (other than factory so called pillar bedding) have been done so that in addition to the pillars, the entire surface of the action, in the area that was bedded was bedded as well. Sometimes this is the entire underside of the action, others use what I call bridge bedding, where the receiver ring and tang areas are bedded, but there is clearance between.

Could you post a picture of the bedding in your stock? I find your question confusing, since the usual pillar bedding job would not leave any room for skim bedding, since it would already be bedded in the same areas, with the addition of pillars.

I like doing a version of what Boyd is calling bridge bedding for these "pillar bedded" actions. A lot of these pillars are just put through stock in factory as Boyd suggests with little care to ensure the pillars are doing their job properly. Some work well, others don't. I put a band of bedding material over each pillar so that the action screw pull down into this band at each pillar. This is simply done with a single layer of tape between each area and you can remove some stock material in thos spots to help. Seems to wrok very well.

Whether this will help your grouping is uncertain and it doesn't sound like bedding issues

 

[kcTbear]

Gentlemen, here are the photos, as you can see there are only pillars, all other material you see is the composite makeup of the raw stock. Manners didn't offer the bedding when I ordered and at the time I was under the assumption that pillars provided the strength and stability needed. They do offer bedding services, for $195, but it was a rough road getting the stock back from them. Don't get me wrong they were kind enough, butI don't want to send it back a third time.
I may find someone local, as there are several options in my area. That is if this may be a money worthy investment.

Let me know what you think. Thank you.

 

[camac]

Hard to tell from the photos but it looks like there is a wear mark forward but well right of the front pillar? Rear pillar looks as though action is sitting nicely on it though.

 

[kcTbear]

Good eyes, the wear marks are from a dremel tool that I used to recess the stock. I used an arcaic method of lipstick on the mounting points to determine if the pillars were not making direct contact. I removed the excess and had skipped over the pillar on accident. OOPS!

 

[bluealtered]

I have found in the past that simply taking the time to run a certian number of rounds through a rifle will show where the action is making and not making contact with the bedding of the stock. This may help with your desicion as to what you need to do.

At the very least it will allow you more time to use the rifle and new rest, and perhaps point out the grouping problem. Hope this helps some. blue

 

[BoydAllen]

It looks to me like a skim bedding job is in order. I would ask Tom what procedure and materials he recommends for his stocks.

 

[kcTbear]

thanks Blue, thanks Boyd, I'm going to do some more load development and go from there.
Thanks to all for the insight, suggestions and opinions.