Sizing .223 brass

[drbyrnes]

Hello. I am new to this forum. I need some help with sizing .223 brass. I know there is thread about this, but not sure how to post a question there. Just some background on my reloading experience: I have been reloading since about 1989, starting with 12 ga and 20 ga shotshells, then progressing to pistol ammo with .38 spl, 40 S&W, 44 mag, and most recently a lot of 9 mm. I refer to multiple reloading manuals including Lyman, Hornady, and Lee’s (50th edition). I have been very successful with any of the recipes I selected so far. I will be meticulously adhering to a recipe in one of those manuals for reloading .223’s. Because this is my first attempt at bottle neck rifle loads I am being VERY careful about each reloading step. I follow the recipe as far as powder, bullet weight and shape, COAL, and other measurements, etc. along with exact case prep as far as cleaning, lubing, trimming, chamfering, deburring, etc.

But my problem has to do with 2 issues with sizing of the .223 cases:
1) the force required to completely size the brass seems to be way out of proportion; I almost have to use part of my body weight to completely lower the arm of the press.
And, 2) sizing results (on several cases) in an elevated ring of brass at the base of the case, about 1/4” above the the base, in the web area of the case. It appears to be a braising of the brass, and I can feel it with my fingernail. Yet all such brass easily fit into my .223 case gauge as well as the breech of my AR-15 rifle; they also easily cycle and eject from the rifle, as well as a couple dummy rounds I put together.
It looks to me like the sizing die has simply molded the brass down as far as it will go, and it leaves this very slightly elevated ring. I just wanted to be safe and not reload any of this brass until I am sure that this ring is not a sign of potential excess brass thinning or weakening resulting in a rupture on firing.

I am using brand new RCBS small base steel dies, on an older Lyman T-Mag turret press. Have been lubing with Hornady One Shot, but ordered some Imperial Lube Wax today. Hope to use Hornady 55 gr FMJ BT bullet, H335 powder, and CCI small rifle primers.

Hope you have some suggestions or reassurance that what I am observing is safe. I am a newbie with bottle neck rifle cartridge reloading.

Thanks.

 

[bpm990d]

Couple things about OneShot.

1. Dies need to be clean.
2. Brass needs to be clean.
3. Shake well, spray the cases on all sides.
4. Squirt some into the die before you install on your press.
5. Wait until everything is dry. Like 10 minutes.

That being said, what is the purpose of using small base dies? Probably not needed unless it's range brass of an unknown provenance. Anything shot out of your rifle should be able to use regular dies.

What method are you using to gauge the once fired brass that comes out of your rifle? I like RCBS Precision Mics and Mo's gauges but some use a tool on a caliper.

 

[PopCharlie]

You may not need a small base die. If you have a standard .223 sizing die, give it a try. I don't use a small base die to size my AR .223 brass. I use a bushing F/L die for my .223 bolt gun, not a small base either.

PopCharlie

 

[DDRanch]

I size and process a lot of 223 Brass in large lots and I use either Dillon case lube or equivalent of 1 part lanolin and 10 parts alcohol. If your doing small batches I would use a Lube pad. I would stay away from One-Shot, save it for pistol reloading.

 

[Albany Mountain]

Are you cleaning the cases prior to resizing?? I do with dirty brass. Also you shouldn't need a small base in most cases. You should size the case to the chamber and not just to contacting the shellholder. If your rifle is a ar15, remove the rear pin and open up the upper. Back out your resizing die a half turn and size. put the resized round in the chamber and push the bolt to close with your thumb. It should not close or not easily. Back to the die and turn the die about 1/8" in rotational movement and resize again and rechamber again. Keep repeating until the bolt closes with little effort. Then you are at the proper point and turn the die about 1/16" to 1/8" more and lock it in.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Don't have a small base die, any range brass I use is from carbine classes. The class requires new ammo, so I KNOW all once fired, no auto weapons. I use a RCBS standard fl die, rcbs shell holder, rock chucker. Hornady one shot. Cases are deprimed and washed (no pins)dryed prior to sizing. Die is set to size to the minimum SAAMI step on a Lyman ammo checker block. I can use the brass in a 556 and Wyde chamber AR and all 3 of my bolt guns. I use the same die setting for my 20p (AR)brass. I clean and lube the die with one shot, brass is sprayed and shaken in a zip lock bag, dumped into a cardboard flat to flash off. I size with the die gutted, and use a mandrel to set the neck inside diameter later. Sometimes I anneal prior to sizing, other wise I anneal after shooting the first time. No stuck case issues, no case separation issues. I check all AR brass with the Lyman ammo checker(make sure checker is clean) lube removed from case. Case should drop in and out. You will never have to mortor or forward assist a round, even in below freezing temps.

 

[Oso]

If you are using Range Brass then you should anneal before resizing. This will reduce amount of effort to resize and also leads to a more uniform sized case.

My opinion is if you need a small base die to resize a case then better to toss it. Unless your source of brass has a lot of cases requiring small base die and you are sure cases weren't fired full auto... then just use small base die for all of your cases.

Difficulty resizing a case can be the result of (1) not enough lubricant on case, (2) work hardened brass (need to anneal), (3) excessive expansion of case (small base die). There is one other possibility and that is if the FL Sizing Die set up incorrectly with the plunger/expander not screwed in / positioned low enough. The expander ball should enter and pass through the case neck before the body of the die comes into contact with the case. If there isn't a gap between these two points of contact then the case neck gets pinched between the plunger's expansion and the die's constriction of the case dimensions.

The better way to apply the OneShot is to lay the cases on their side on top of a paper towel placed on a flat surface, such as a cookie sheet or better yet inside a large tupperware container. Line the cases up in series of stacked rows and then spray across group. Roll the cases a little and then spray. Repeat until you have covered the case sides. Now that they are coated shake container back and forth to evenly distribute OneShot as the paper towel absorbs the excess spray. Open the container and let gasses evaporate as cases dry.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

1) the force required to completely size the brass seems to be way out of proportion; I almost have to use part of my body weight to completely lower the arm of the press.

If your putting this much pressure on the arm/ram and are able to get the case back out, it not all a case lube problem. Go ahead and order you a regular full length die from Forster, or Redding .

 

[Eagle Six]

@drbyrnes welcome to the forum. Where and what type of brass are you sizing? The small base die is a specialty die and shouldn't be necessary for what you are doing. As others have suggested get a regular full length die. If you are using range pickup brass set it aside. Use brass that is once fired from you AR until you get things straighten out. Your sizing lube should work fine. Lanolin mix, Imperial was, Dillon, RCBS pad, and Hornady One Shot, and others all will work fine for your process. They are all a bit different for different people. If you try them all they all will work and you will find your favorite, follow the manufactures recommended process. When you get things sorted out you may want to use a different method for setting up your die and perhaps another type of die, and in the future you may find a use for the small base die.

After you use a standard FL sizing die on once fired brass from your AR with better success, and if you have range pickup brass, you will have a much better idea of that unknown brass value when you size it.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

You also need to be sure your decapping pin retainer is not hitting on the inside of your case head! I usually adjust the decapping pin just low enough to remove the primer. Your small base die is having to push more brass than needed downward. The ridge you are feeling is where the die stops moving brass. I would recommend picking up just a FL sizing die. Also if you are pushing the case shoulder back further than needed, this will add to the difficulty of resizing. The correct guage for your rifle is the chamber of your barrel. Size the cases just enough to easily chamber in you barrel.

Frank

 

[joshb]

Welcome to the forum! Good advice so far. I’ll key in on two things. I only use a small base die when my brass finally gets hard to chamber because the “base” of the case has expanded. Get a regular die.
I use Imperial sizing Wax, exclusively. For me, it saves time and I’ve never had a stuck case when using it.
An IMPORTANT point about reloading bottle neck cartridges is that you greatly reduce brass life if you keep pushing the shoulder back too far each time you resize it. You need to get some tools to measure the shoulder to base lengths. I use the Hornady set with a Mitutoyo caliper. Once you get your die set up properly for your shoulder bump, you just need to randomly check for accuracy.
For bolt guns, general consensus is to push the shoulder back 2 thousandths of an inch.
AR’s are treated a little differently. I’m not a big AR shooter so hopefully one will chime in.

 

[jelenko]

A lot of solid advice here.
I would add just one comment on annealing.
I've never annealed my 223 brass. I reload a lot of brass 8-10 times. I have not noticed any increase in effort needed to resize 8x brass vs unfired => I don't think it's part of what's causing the amount of effort you're seeing.

That said, my understanding is that annealing brass will improve the consistency of neck tension on the bullet, which is supposed to improve accuracy - especially as you shoot at distances beyond 600 yards.
Whether the amount of improvement is helpful depends on the what you're trying to do. E.g., for 'cross the course' where 10 rings are 2 moa, not so much. For long range benchrest, maybe a lot.

 

[243winxb]

A lube change will help. RCBS 2 applied from a pad. Neck brush to lube/clean inside of necks.

Remove flex from Turret.

My standard RCBS FL dies (2) have worked* with all types of actions.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

But my problem has to do with 2 issues with sizing of the .223 cases:
1) the force required to completely size the brass seems to be way out of proportion; I almost have to use part of my body weight to completely lower the arm of the press.

Having loaded 20,000+ rounds of 223 using dies by Redding, Dillon and Lee, what you are describing is not normal.

I use One-Shot as the lube for a large majority of the 223 I load and the amount of force needed to full size a case is very small. Even for range brass that has not been fired in my chambers.

As has been suggested by others above, I would too recommend:
1. Trying a non-small base die
2. Verifying that you are not setting back the shoulder too far, using a tool such as the Hornady Headspace Comparator

When loading bottleneck rifle cartridges it is important to make sure that shoulders get bumped back the correct amount for your chamber. If your die is screwed in too far it could be you are pushing the shoulders back a large amount which can cause issues such as shortened brass life and failures to fire (due to the firing pin not reaching the primer).

This is what I do:
Bolt guns - bump 1 - 2 thousands under chamber headspace
Gas guns - bump 2 - 3 thousands under chamber headspace

 

[K22]

Something is terribly wrong here. You should not have to use the kind of force to size a case. Stop!

First, used a standard F/L die. But see below on how to set it up properly.

Also, you can eliminate a lot of sizing problems by starting with virgin cases.

One shot lube can be tricky if not applied the right way meaning full coverage especially with semi-autos that usually require more sizing than bolt rifles. I much prefer Imperial Sizing Wax applied with the fingers. Never - I mean never had a stuck case or difficulty sizing a case with Imperial.

Dies need to be kept clean of all excess lube and tumbler media residue. Case needed to be cleaned before sizing. If you don't have a tumbler, a cloth with a light amount of mineral spirits will do the job quite nicely. Also, remove burned on carbon from the necks with 0000 steel wool and wipe the necks afterwards.

If you do not know the fired dimensions of your cases, it's difficult to set you F/L die up for the proper sizing. You should get a shoulder bump gauge and caliper. Measure at least 5 fired cases with spent primers removed. Set F/L die to push the shoulder back about .001 to .002 and check in rifle chamber for adequate chambering. For semi-auto's, some require a shoulder bump of .003 or more. Adjust F/L die accordingly until you obtain correct chambering as verify in the rifle chamber.

If this fails, seek out an experience mentor.

 

[Ned Ludd]

The OP stated he is using a small base die. From personal experience with a .223 Rem small base die, they can require much more force than is needed with a standard die. Further, the ring slightly above the extractor groove after re-sizing is caused by the small base die squeezing down the case wall to such an extent it actually leaves a slight corner or edge...a line of demarcation at the lowest point on the case wall where the die body stopped sizing down the brass. It can easily be felt by touch or with a fingernail.

There have been a number of good suggestions already posted above. The use of a sufficient amount of a good lubricant is always a good idea. It may also be that a small base die isn't necessary. I purchased mine for a very specific reason and do not use it for everyday re-sizing of .223 Rem brass, it just isn't needed.