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Site's Two Years Old--Where From Here?

Forum Boss

Administrator
Hey folks,

September First will mark the two-year anniversary of 6mmBR.com | AccurateShooter.com .

This year we've added a number of features: Member Map,with range locations), interactive Event Calendar, Many more Cartridge Guides, Lots of new technical articles.

Since last summer, overall site traffic has doubled and Forum traffic has tripled.

But we need the site to continue to grow in order to reach a point where advertising/sponsor support is sufficient to make the editorial work self-sustaining, and to provide funds for additional product testing.

We've also considered actually opening an online store to sell products. The challenge here is that large retailers, such as MidwayUSA, can nearly always acquire products for much less than we can.

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing readers' views...

What topics would you like to see covered in the months ahead?

How would you like to see the site change/evolve?

What products would you like to see us sell direct to site visitors?


One idea we've been toying with is a membership--the "Accurate Shooters' Club". In return for an annual fee, members would have access to premium content areas, and would be given special discounts on products such as scopes, barrels, actions, and stocks.

Again, I solicit your comments about the Club idea. If this is successful we could raise money that could be used for some definitive testing of scopes, primers, and the like.

Mr. Moderator
 
If you will go the commercial route, I think you will loose a part of your credibility that you have right now. There are no interests involved in the articles and results that are posted, besides maybe a few egoes ;)
 
I'll agree with what Jim says. Everyone that has posted a reply to a question has done it for free! You don't have to be a "member" to get a straight answer. I know $$$ is what makes the world go around but...
Can't remember how many times I have directed someone to this forum to get an answer to their question, knowing that I couldn't find a better place.
Seems to me that 6mmBR.com couldn't get much better, but I'am pretty easy to please!;) JMHO. Mike.
 
I think the only way that the store would work is if members could buy items that they could not get elsewhere; Accurate Shooter Exclusive Products. One such idea would include dies, brass or bullets.

I think the club idea could work as long as the articles that are member only accessible are of high interest, have relevant scientific testing and are peer reviewed. The peer review process would cause a slight delay in publication. However, the information published would be the highest quality. That would set this site far above anything that has ever been attempted in the realm of precision shooting journalism.

Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
 
To be a paying memebr to get discounts would be OK for you who live in the USA, but I would like to remind you all that there are other members of 6mmBr/Accurateshooters that live in the rest of the world and we would be excluded from any of these discounts.
Pete
 
Some of the earlier posts have very valid reasons for not going commercial. Not only will you been seen to be pushing your own products in any Testing done but site sponsors you have now who sell the same items will withdraw their support if you go in opposition to them.
Then with the paid membership with discounts with suppliers international members will get some benefit but most of that gets eaten in freight etc.
There is no reason why raffling a scope or dies or gift vouchers from some of the site sponsors wouldn`t work to raise funds.
 
I commend our Site Admin for all the work he has put in and what he has achieved. 6mmBR is one of the most interesting sites around!!!

What you could do to raise some extra funding is sell caps/shirts/gadgets. I'm trying this for my own site and there is a lot more interest than I had thought. You can sell a shirt with your logo on it and take a few $ on each shirt/mug/cap/whatever for site sponsorship. This route will give only a little bit of extra income, but people buying them will not mind that a few $ are heading towards maintaining their fevorite site, and walk around with your site as an advertisement as well. It's a win-win for both parties.

Another option is to creat group buys into a products that was tested/reviewed. This is only once or twice and will not have you as official dealer to anything. Kind of like selling stuff, but wihtout loosing your status quo.

Just a couple of ideas.
 
6mmbr.com is an outstanding resource for shooters. This applies to both the articles and the forums. Your progress in two years is phenomenal.

While I understand the need for $$ to make the machine run, I agree you would loose credibility by going into sales. Group buys might be different, but still you could loose something.

The concepts of advertising and of donations you have now is good and the idea of hats, mugs, T-shirts and etc. is also good.

If you would share some general financial information on where you are today and where you think you need go, your feedback would improve. Most of us don't have a grasp of the scale or depth of finances you looking for.
 
Myself, I would rather "donate" to make sure that the forum stays up and running then have to "pay to play", but thats just me. I know there's no such thing as a "free lunch". ;)
 
Content free
Membership = discounts on goods, get a t-shirt or hat for joining.

Nonmembers could buy t-shirts and what not, but not recieve discounts on goods.

On other things to sell...it would be difficult to compete with any of the major retailers like Midway, Grafs, Brunos..etc.

We would need products that were specially made and unavailable elsewhere.

RHINOUT!
 
Re the financial info Kitsap requested--

Donations bring in $100-$200 per month,$75 received thus far in August).
Sponsors contribute $600-$1200 per month, depending on how many are active at any given time.

That covers our overhead with a little left over for hardware upgrades,I recently spent $1100 on a new computer). We could definitely use more money to buy barrels, stocks, powder etc. for testing. I've been selling some of my personal guns and equipment to pay those expenses.

The problem is, as a content site, I typically spend 30-40 hours a week on the articles, BLOGs, and updates. Another 10 hours per week in communications and answering User emails.

Bottom line--running the site is essentially a full-time job for which I receive no compensation. I've had to incur a huge amount of personal debt to have maintained the site this long. Tens of Thousands of dollars.,Consider this--we have delivered over 90 major articles so far. Had I been paid 'going rate' for article submissions, that would represent $36,000-$50,000 in author fees, not counting the layout and editing services).

- - -

If you look at something like Small Caliber News, the magazine is half advertising and costs about $22.00/year for four issues. 6mmBR.com | AccurateShooter.com is free, we deliver more original content and have much less advertising.

- - -

My thinking about online sales is that if, for example, we sold one premium scope per month, we could net as much as all the donations put together.

Looking at the big picture, I think some kind of Club Membership would be the ideal solution. I'm thinking Club Members might pay $30/year and for that they would get:

1. One free reamer rental
2. $75 off a custom action
3. $50 off a stock
4. $25 off a die set
5. Gun insurance,similar to what the NRA provides)
6. "Members' only" discounts at a vendor such as Grafs.
 
Paul: So what you're saying is that the "site and it's content" will be free for anyone to view and membership will be a added extra? If so, sounds like a pretty good deal to me. :)
 
I don't think many of us knew you exactly how much work you put into the site.

I applaud your efforts.

I think we need to move ahead with some $ solution soon.

RHINOUT!
 
NorCalMikie said:
Paul: So what you're saying is that the "site and it's content" will be free for anyone to view and membership will be a added extra? If so, sounds like a pretty good deal to me. :)

Mike,

There is still the possibility of "premium content" for more $$. But the issue with that is someone still has to do the testing, write the story, edit the photos etc. And that pretty much means more work for no pay.

One suggestion was that all content would eventually be free, but only "members" could access the current BLOG, Gun of the Week etc. the month of release.

To me, the solutions involve everything: More advertising support, selling some select products with a decent margin, and doing some kind of membership.

I understand the interest in T-shirts and Hats, but the amount of effort to take orders, pack, and ship, to net $5,maybe) per shirt, really isn't a winning solution at this point. What I HAVE thought about is a T-shirt store with maybe two dozen available designs. There one could buy a 6mmBR.com shirt AND a Berger Shirt AND BAT Machines T-shirt. If I could sell 3-4 shirts per order, THEN it makes sense.
 
I'm not a BR shooter. BUT the information on accuracy cuts across all lines. I may not turn case necks but understanding the how and why I can digest.

I have learned as much or more here about the mechanics of a accurate rifle, in the short time I have been here, then all the time I've spent on ranges picking brains. I'm getting back into marksmenship and accuracy to improve my range and humane kills.

Bottom line is a annual maintenance fee would be far less than the money and time I would have spent figuring this or that out, reinventing the wheel etc. in the school of hard knocks.

The guys who are the "experts", been there and done it and have the credintials to back it up, and reply often could be on a no cost basis for their info. I'll bet many of them scratch their heads at some of the stuff. Just an example: RPM of bullets...
 
I would be exceptionally disappointed to see the site vanish, and that is what will happen if a solution is not met. None of us should expect the owner to go into personal debt to keep this going, so IMO, we must help with a solution.

Now, comparing this site to a magazine is a good concept. This is more of a content based site, just like a magazine, and content costs money. Therefore, to have access to the content, one should expect to pay a fee, just as one would for a subscription to a magazine.

So my first suggestion is to have the content sections only accessible to paying subscribers, at least initially. The forums always remain free, as almost all forums are, but, just as with Guns and Ammo, if you want the content, you are going to need to pay. I truly view the content here as a HUGE resource. I refer to the Guns of the Week often, to get ideas, remind me of what is working for other, see specific products, read reviews etc.

I would suggest maybe a 6 month wait until new content is made available to non-subscribers. They don't want to pay for content, then they wait until their buddy finishes with the magazine and gives it to them. This is also a good incentive to join up, a 6 month wait for info on the 6.5x47 would just be killing most folks :D

Regarding the cost of paying for the testing of goods etc, one thing that could be "negotiated" with sponsors or manufacturers, is that they are willing to provide product to "specific authorized members" at cost, for testing purposes. Of course, those folks will need to promise to actually review, objectively, the product. Simple to police though, if they never provide the review, they are taken off the list. I think that many folks would exchange a bit of time and energy for new and cheap stuff to try out. For example, if Sierra was willing to offer 500 of their new 123s to a tester to try, either for free or even for 50% off, I know someone would be willing to shoot them and write a review.

Regarding the sale of logo merchandise, that could be done fairly easily, and at no cost, if you found the right vendor and had a decent suite of products. There are companies out there that will handle all that for you, then just pay you a percent. They design, print, inventory, sell, and ship the product, then just give the site a cut. Of course, there would need to be a decent volume for them to continue, but give them some product “latitude” and they can usually come up with some good stuff. Further, do some combo shirts for example AccurateShooter/Berger, with Bergers blessing, and sell these as well. Maybe you partner with Life, Liberty, Etc, a marketer of gun related merchandise. Ask them trade a sponsorship with them and let them run the retail merchandising, and pay a cut of the sales back to the site.

I do like the idea of a slight member discount on sponsors products, even if it is only like $25 on an action. Enough that does not hurt the mfg, their margins are thin and if they have to pay to advertise and give a discount they might just skip it, but that if you make one big purchase from a vendor, you get your membership fee back in savings.

It would be hard, if not impossible, to compete on normal products as many folks here will already be receiving dealer pricing from Midway, Grafs, and Brownells.

Obviously, as a site contributor already, I will do my part. I challenge every other board member who has not already, to send the folks at least something as well, until this gets worked out!! Lets keep this thing going!!

Mark
 
A friend of mine is one of the moderators for a very successful off-road Four-Wheeling site. They have a "premium" membership. This includes access to certain extra galleries, "peer gear review" sections. Membership also brings enhanced posting rights, and a few other features. Over the years they've managed to get over a quarter of the members to pay about $20.00 a year.

We have about 2000 registered members of the Forum, and about 3000 people visit the site,including the content areas) every day.

I would like to work out a deal with vendors so that purchasing a "premium membership" would be a no-brainer--e.g. the membership would pay for itself immediately, and could be worth hundreds of dollars to someone buying a couple of actions or multiple barrels.

- - -

It does seem that most respondents do NOT want us to get into the business of selling stuff, except perhaps hats and T-shirts.

Walker--can you give me more specifics on the third-party clothing vendors? What has made me reluctant to do T--shirts is the time and effort involved in packing and shipping just to make a buck or two. I rather sell one NightForce scope to net the same amount as 50 T-shirts.
 
Paul: It may not pay the bills, but here's a great big ATTABOY! You've done an incredible job with this site. It is far and away the best place on the web for an accuracy-minded shooter to go. The quality of the content is outstanding and the frequency with which new material is added has me checking back every day just to get my "fix".

I think that free access to the content is essential for getting new people hooked. It took many visits over many months for me to really explore the site and to get convinced that this is the place for me. I also agree with others that it is important not to jeopardize your independence and perceived objectivity. Keep on telling it like it is!

A buyer's club sounds great. Perhaps you could even out-source the fulfillment,at least for hats, shirts, and other trinkets). Maybe you could become a pass-through portal for Midway and others,"a percentage of your purchase will help support this fine site...").

A 1-to-6 month delay to see the latest features might work, but there could be problems with people copying and emailing stuff to non-subscribers,digital rights management and all that stuff).

Another idea might be to charge for classified listings. Perhaps a sliding scale like eBay? Maybe an honor system like GunsAmerica,"pay for the ad only if it works")?

As a loyal reader who's ready to make a contribution, but just hasn't gotten around to it, it's probably time to find a way to "encourage" more of us fence-sitters to pay up.

Keep up the great work! Your passion and commitment to this project really shows. Best regards,

Richard.
 
I don't visit the forums often, hardly ever actually, but I support this site because of the content. It has really speed-ed the learning curve for me. This site really is an interactive magazine. I look forward to every issue of "PS" and "Small Caliber News". I also pay for them.,hint, hint, wink, wink)

One of the most refreshing aspects of 6mmbr is it's lack of self promotion. This site is a true labor of passion. All of you are to be congratulated.

Enough cheer leading, how can we pay for this thing? The idea of a buyer's club, enhanced access, are all great. The idea of getting into retail could turn into a real monster, both time and investment wise.

If Creedmore, Brownell's, Midway, et.al. could be convinced to participate in a 6mmbr buyers club, even on a trial basis, they could actually get a 1:1 FEEDBACK on their advertising dollars.

The blog section almost always has at least one piece on where to buy what for the best value. A great help more than once, by the way.

One of the reasons many of us go to Camp Perry every year is because of "Commercial Row" the things we need and are going to use throughout the year are there, and generally specially priced for the competitors. If a package could be put together to buy the things that we all use,,we do spend ALOT of money on this hobby), at a discount to us and a pass-through to the site, it could be a win-win.

just my two cents.


Tim,Carlsdad) Busse
Balad, Iraq
 

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