Single Shot Actions
- Thread starter Jimbo42
- Start date
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Could ALSO be After Shave and Perfume that gets to him? I worked where they had a sign in the office "No perfume". You never know what will trip it till it's to late.
Hang in there Larry.
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
I bought one of the SS single shots. It had 5% contact on one lug. After facing the receiver, truing the face and lapping it in I discovered that the bolt handle was not timed correctly. No primary extraction. Sent that out to be fixed. It's good now but I don't think I'd pay more than 50 bucks for another Remington action given the amount of work they need. I don't understand how they could be so bad given modern CNC machining and tooling.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Every one is exactly the same. They have no idea they dont extract and havent since the beginning, or they would have fixed that bolt handle jig like 50yrs ago
LarryDScott
Site $$ Sponsor
Could ALSO be After Shave and Perfume that gets to him? I worked where they had a sign in the office "No perfume". You never know what will trip it till it's to late.
You are correct that also affects me the same as smoke. LDS
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
And you can only hold your breath for so long.
If it came down to it, I bet smoke signals would even get to you too?
Like I said, hang in there Pardner. I'll be rooting for you.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
This experience is not typical. Quite the contrary. In fact, I have never heard of a bad one. You are the first one.
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
I've read since and checked for myself that the older actions worked as designed. Sounds like the people that knew how they were supposed to work retired and someone who didn't know reworked the prints. The result is that every single Remington 700 action produced since needs to be fixed. None of them have primary extraction. It's a pain when you're shooting hotter competition loads and they don't want to pop out easily. Since the bolt handle was positioned correctly I haven't had a problem since.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Not true. But I keep hearing this. Probably came from the guys who make Remington clones.
Uh.... quite true in that I also have seen stock Remington 700 bolts that just engage the extraction ramp at the very end of bolt lift or don't engage at all. For the record I do not manufacture 'clone' actions.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Uh.... quite true in that I also have seen stock Remington 700 bolts that just engage the extraction ramp at the very end of bolt lift or don't engage at all. For the record I do not manufacture 'clone' actions.
I have also "seen" them, but I don't think that is typical as you implied, like a every action made after 1970 had it or something. That is simply not true.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Like I said before my gunsmith put them on par with many of the custom clones. I think they are way better than the Walmart take aparts.
Ok...
I started looking at some of mine based on the post by Ronsat. (None them are the 700 single shots this is about, but I looked at 40-X’s and 700’s).
Robin’s reply that some bolt handles don’t cam is not wrong. Some newer 700’s short actions on bolt lift don’t really want to stop by themselves before the final 1/12 of the bolt lift. This is the “felt detent” on the cocking piece and also where you could say the camming would occur. The 40-X’s all do stop and cam as confirmed by wear marks from contact on both the bolt handle and receiver.
You can see that a gap exists throughout bolt handle travel on some 700 actions. The receiver is never touched by the bolt handle on bolt lift at the spot where camming would occur. The gap I see would indicate that the bolt handle is shy in length on that 45 degree cut we are all familiar with.
The bolt handle is perfectly centered though in the receiver cut and it’s placed to abut the stop exactly correctly with the motion of the cocking piece. So if you moved it, you’d either throw off the timing, change spring tension, or hit the receiver with the handle. The handle is simply short at the 45 degree angle so as to not cam. So I wonder if the repaired bolt mentioned above was actually the installation of a different handle. (Edited: they all measure the same so probably you could just move it clockwise looking at the firing pin.).
Does it matter if the bolt cams? Of course, but it hasn’t affected normal rounds for me at all. I’m not changing a thing on my new ones with this issue. If the bolt opens on a stuck case, I can tap the handle rearward to ease it back. If the bolt were to stop short of primary extraction on an action that cams, I might have to tap it up the rest of the way, anyhow. I’m only going to have a stuck case by swapping around old fired brass from gun to gun, and it’s easy to avoid doing that. Not even a hot load would require tapping the bolt.
Robin’s reply that some bolt handles don’t cam is not wrong. Some newer 700’s short actions on bolt lift don’t really want to stop by themselves before the final 1/12 of the bolt lift. This is the “felt detent” on the cocking piece and also where you could say the camming would occur. The 40-X’s all do stop and cam as confirmed by wear marks from contact on both the bolt handle and receiver.
You can see that a gap exists throughout bolt handle travel on some 700 actions. The receiver is never touched by the bolt handle on bolt lift at the spot where camming would occur. The gap I see would indicate that the bolt handle is shy in length on that 45 degree cut we are all familiar with.
The bolt handle is perfectly centered though in the receiver cut and it’s placed to abut the stop exactly correctly with the motion of the cocking piece. So if you moved it, you’d either throw off the timing, change spring tension, or hit the receiver with the handle. The handle is simply short at the 45 degree angle so as to not cam. So I wonder if the repaired bolt mentioned above was actually the installation of a different handle. (Edited: they all measure the same so probably you could just move it clockwise looking at the firing pin.).
Does it matter if the bolt cams? Of course, but it hasn’t affected normal rounds for me at all. I’m not changing a thing on my new ones with this issue. If the bolt opens on a stuck case, I can tap the handle rearward to ease it back. If the bolt were to stop short of primary extraction on an action that cams, I might have to tap it up the rest of the way, anyhow. I’m only going to have a stuck case by swapping around old fired brass from gun to gun, and it’s easy to avoid doing that. Not even a hot load would require tapping the bolt.
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Picture tells the story. All the handles are cut the same. It’s where they are put. On a fully-lifted bolt, if the gap between receiver and the handle is big like this, it never cammed. No primary extraction. You eject the round on your own.
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If the gap between the receiver flat and handle stop is only this size, from an old 40-X, it cams.
The bolt never rotates enough that the protruding handle would contact the receiver, but too much space means it was attached where the angled camming surfaces would also never touch.
The bolt never rotates enough that the protruding handle would contact the receiver, but too much space means it was attached where the angled camming surfaces would also never touch.
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swd
Silver $$ Contributor
I’ve worked on about a gazillion 700’s from first year production up to the most current. I’ve seen everything from very good primary extraction to absolutely none. Early, late or in between there is no consistency. I will say poor primary extraction is more common than good. But inconsistently is the only consistency, lol.
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urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
There is a video on Youtube from Alex Wheeler where he defines primary extraction on a 700, and he said that many of his customers send him factory 700s that are fine and needed no work at all.
When the words "all" and "every" get thrown around about Remington 700s (mostly referring to how they are all "wrong") I have to throw my bullpuckey chip.
When the words "all" and "every" get thrown around about Remington 700s (mostly referring to how they are all "wrong") I have to throw my bullpuckey chip.
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
Perhaps. I knew nothing about primary extraction until I was bitten by it. From that point on it became one of the first things I look at. Every time I walk into a gun store and look at a 700, I check the primary extraction. Granted, my sample set is not 100% of production for the last 50 years but of those in my sample set, the older ones seem fine, the newer ones not so fine. And this appears to be what many are reporting.
My action was a SS Single Shot purchased from a reputable provider of actions, barrels and accessories. In spite of my past experiences with newer Remington products I figured they would not pass crap off onto this particular reseller. Way wrong. The 5% contact was basically a scratch across one lug. Once that was fixed, (still not perfect but maybe 85 percent contact), the primary extraction issue reared its ugly head in F Class matches. At first I was thinking that maybe my loads were too hot. This in spite of the primers looking fine and no extractor marks on the cases. Once I found out what the issue was I sent the action to LRI where they remounted the bolt handle in the correct location and tig welded it on. No issues since.
The time and money I spent correcting the issues that should have been a non issues given current CNC Machine capabilities would have purchased a custom action. And that is what I did with the last action I picked up.
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