Sierra vs Berger max loads?

[Lucky6547]

Hello,
My girlfriend "cleaned" my reloading bench...in doing so she hid my Berger load book...
I just bought some Berger 52gr flat base match bullets for my new 223(a new rem700 dal varmint I got on sale). I figured a 52gr bullet is a 52gr bullet and used my Sierra manual. Using H335, Sierra says the max load is 27.6gr and their accuracy load is something like 26.9gr...so I loaded a few three shot from 26.3gr to 27.5gr in 0.3gr increments. The rifle loved the 27.5gr load and there weren't any pressure signs...
When I got home from the range, I found the Berger book, and their max load was 25.9gr!
Would you guys just use the 27.5gr or go with something more in line with Bergers data? I was surprised that all my loads that were way over Bergers data didn't show pressure signs at all...attached is the 27.5gr group.
Thanks,
Ken

 

[Rtheurer]

My girlfriend "cleaned" my reloading bench...in doing so she hid my Berger load book...

Is this code for I lost it and cant remember where it is???

RT

 

[logger3006]

They probably have a different bearing surface. Longer bearing surface it will run at higher pressure with same charge weight.

 

[Lucky6547]

Rt,
No...she asks me to clean up and I forget...if I wait too long she can't stand it and cleans...I'm suspicious that she might take one or two things and hide them from me so that I'll be quicker next time to clean on my own...

 

[Joe Salt]

Got to what them woman, Mine only bring stuff down stairs that I forget. I clean my room! Always start low and go up like you did and look for pressure signs. And keep the wife out of your room tell her thats the Man Cave.

Joe Salt

 

[logger3006]

She's probably in there mixing powders and making you a new proprietary mixed blend...haha

 

[jlow]

Now that they have given you a hard enough time about your GF… ;D Let’s talk about the load.

It’s always bad to assume the max charge is the same for different bullets. However, having said so, my experience with either the Berger or Sierra manual is that their max load is extremely conservative. Having said so, one should always have to be careful when exceeding published max load looking for pressure signs such as primer cratering, flattening primers, ejector swipes, etc. However, if you have exceeded but there is no pressure signs, you are GTG.

The only other thing to also keep in mind is it is winter now and so colder and so pressure will creep up in the summer on the same load.

 

[Shynloco]

Now that they have given you a hard enough time about your GF… ;D Let’s talk about the load.

It’s always bad to assume the max charge is the same for different bullets. However, having said so, my experience with either the Berger or Sierra manual is that their max load is extremely conservative. Having said so, one should always have to be careful when exceeding published max load looking for pressure signs such as primer cratering, flattening primers, ejector swipes, etc. However, if you have exceeded but there is no pressure signs, you are GTG.

The only other thing to also keep in mind is it is winter now and so colder and so pressure will creep up in the summer on the same load.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything jlow wrote, including the GF issue. I use primarily either Sierra or Berger bullets in most of my rifles. The rifle's performance and accuracy with said bullets dictates which manufacturers' bullet I use. I do pay attention to what each manual suggests. But rely mostly on which bullet (and manual) I am using and the two are not interchangeable information or loads. I've tested that statement in the past and using a Sierra bullet with a Berger recommended load has never increased accuracy. In fact in my experiences, there's been a dropoff in accuracy and group size if anything. Just my .02 worth.

Alex

 

[CatShooter]

If you look up a load for a 52gr hollow point, with H-335 in twenty manuals, you will get 20 different start and max loads...

... even with the same 52gr bullet.

Different barrels, different chambers, different throats, and different operators... and different ideas of what constitutes a max load.

Reloading is 70% art and 30% science - the manuals are a starting point and nothing more.

 

[Chappy]

I've always found that Berger's manual is pretty mild on the loads. The "max load" for a .300 SAUM with 185 gr. bullets is way too low in my rifle. I have been able to safely go up 7 grs. over their "max" before primers were expanding primer pockets and leaving ejector marks of the brass base. Then again, most manuals are on the conservative side most due to safety reason to keep a diptard from doing something stupid.

 

[dkhunt14]

I think you will see if you go to reloading manuals of 30 years ago and compare to todays manuals you will see the max loads have gone down. I am talking like a Hornady verses a Hornady now. I believe the lawsuits and legal consequence's have forced companies to stay on the conservative side. Matt

 

[Bigame1]

I agree with everyone about the loading manuals being conservative and that is why I bought the
Necco quick load to check out any load you can think of plus it saves $$$ as you won't be loading something that is to hot or just won't work. Fine tuning at it's best!

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Simple answer - complex problem.

223 Rem has a SAAMI max pressure of ~55kpsi. 5.56x45 has a max ~62kpsi. Most brass (Lapua comes to mind) is pretty thick in order to handle the higher pressures and AR rifles.

So, the answer is this - you are likely over max for 223 Rem by SAAMI standards. Yet, you are at or below the plastic deformation threshold of your brass.

I know, I know, is it safe? Yes and No. You have already demonstrated that it is safe in your rifle. 700's handle higher pressure cartridges and there are no differences in materials between high pressure chamberings and low.

On the No side, H335 is very temp sensitive. When the weather warms up, you will see pressures rise and will likely have to significantly adjust the load downward.

How's that for a convoluted answer?

 

[CatShooter]

Simple answer - complex problem.

223 Rem has a SAAMI max pressure of ~55kpsi. 5.56x45 has a max ~62kpsi. Most brass (Lapua comes to mind) is pretty thick in order to handle the higher pressures and AR rifles.

So, the answer is this - you are likely over max for 223 Rem by SAAMI standards. Yet, you are at or below the plastic deformation threshold of your brass.

I know, I know, is it safe? Yes and No.

How's that for a convoluted answer?

The difference between 55Kpsia and 62Kpsia is nothing - take the same box of cartridges and fire them in five rifles, and you will get five different pressures - varying more than that much...

They are fine.

 

[wapiti25]

I would say you are good to go as long as the temp does not go up too much. I have ruined brass because of pressure using H335 with loads that were worked up in cool weather then fired in the summer.