Sierra Bullets Tech Help?

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Yesterday I was trying to load some Sierra .308 cal #2125 for 30-06 and I ran into some troubles. Apparently my old Rem 700 is throated a little longer than I would like because I was having difficulty using my Hornady OAL gauge to find the lands, just the boat tail of the bullet was is the modified case's mouth. So I sat there and scratched my head for a minute and decided to call Sierra to get the length of the boat tail so I could atleast seat enough bullet in the case for a good neck purchase, I knew the length from the base to ogive per my comparator so from there I would know how much bearing surface I had to play with so I could get atleast .125" of neck purchase. So I called Sierra and talked with a tech., whom shall remain anonymous, and he was not helpful whatsoever. I asked him for the length of the boat tail section of said bullet while I explained what I was trying to do and he told me "that is propietary information and I'm not allowed to give that out"! I told him I would have measured it myself if their bullets all measured the same length and he more or less told me that all of this wasn't important. I'm beginning to think this fellow really didn't know what he was doing?!? Realizing this fellow wasn't going to be of any help, I thanked him for his time and hung up the phone. Right after that, I noticed my Berger quick reference sheet and got to looking at it. All of a sudden I realized that Berger is more than happy to supply their customers with information, such as the length of boat tail sections of their bullets. Such information us hand loaders find helpful ! I eventually figured out my problem and was able to seat some bullets with aprox. .125" of jump and neck purchase! I still don't understand why Sierra couldn't help me out?? Thanks for listening to the rant of a disgruntled hand loader !

Mike

 

[bozo699]

Mike,
You got a minimum wage employee that probably recognizes a bullet when he see's one in front of him and that is where his knowledge stops. I work for a bullet manufacturer and it is SOP to not give out any info on how the products are made, as a matter of a fact you sign a paper that you will not!! or you will be fired! With that being said he probably gave you the only answer he felt he could since he had no clue what you were asking or needed, as I am sure Sierra does not feel that is proprietary information only the process of making the actual bullet not the dimensions of the bullet. I imagine if you could get a hold of the right person and not the desk operator you could get the info needed, however why can't you measure it yourself if you don't mind me asking?
Wayne.

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Wayne,
If I had two 30 cal bullet comparators and two comparator bodies then yes, I would be able to find the desired measurement but I don't have two! When I called I got the automated deal and pushed the corresponding number for technical help and just got a random tech! I remember his name but, like I said he shall remain anonymous. Also, if all the bullets were of the same length tip to base, then I would have been able to ascertain the length of the boat tail but they were not! I understand these folks are only allowed to give out only so much info but, it wasn't like I was asking for keys to the building or anything lol!

Mike

 

[necchi]

You called the guy on a Monday Morning? Hhmmm, :-[

I'm pretty sure they'd recomend seating at sammi and/or the olde rule of caliber diameter in the neck anyways.
When ya start getting that far out there's concentricity issues. In the guy's defence he probably thought it was easier to tell you he can't give the info than try to explain all the seating issues and dynamics.
It's kinda common knowledge that bullets aren't the same length because of the pointing process and the total length, because of that, isn't really an issue for preformance.

I've got several factory guns where the bullet drops out of the neck before reaching the lands,
With those I figure I've got Car-te`Blanche for seating and usually start .020-.030 over sammi, find the charge and work +/- later for group.
Good luck, keep in mind runout issues in those long throated factory guns. I've found it to be a bigger issue when looking for accuracy than the actual seating position/jump.

 

[LRPV]

I know that at least one of the Sierra technicians knows his stuff and will spend hours on the phone trying to make things work for you. He shoots 1000yd benchrest and has probably forgotten more about loading than most people know. You can go to the Sierra factory and take a tour through the plant and see all the machines as well as most of the process that goes into making the bullets from start to finish. The only they would not show us the last time I was there was the ballistic tip bullet machine, they were trying a new process or something at the time and it was off limits. Pretty cool place, very noisy though. The basement was very cool. Barreled actions hanging all over the walls with loading benches and shooting tunnel.
Jason

 

[Steve Blair]

When ya start getting that far out there's concentricity issues.

What is the concentricity issue with long throats and seating?

 

[johnmyers]

I agree with LRPV as the tech who I think he is referring to is very good at giving any kind of help that he can. I've been in their factory twice and there was nothing secret. Very good people to deal with.

 

[necchi]

When ya start getting that far out there's concentricity issues.

What is the concentricity issue with long throats and seating?

Oop's, nothing when it's said like that.
What is tuff, is when seating far out in the neck of the case trying to reach lands in a chamber that has a very long neck and keeping concentricity under control. Chances of starting and leaving the bullet crooked even in a nice straight case neck increase.

When dealing with off the shelf factory, generously proportioned chambers, even minor runout can be a huge factor with accuracy.
There is a high probability of shooting better groups at sammi length seating with runout in the .001-.002 range vrs a shorter jump with runout at .006 or more.

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

LRPV,
I wished I would have talked to the tech that you're referring to because the one I talked to acted as if he could really give a shit! Oh well, live and learn I guess. I was upset enough yesterday that I could have cared less if I never purchased another box of Sierra bullets again! Thankfully, I still figured it out and all is well. Going to shoot them tomorrow and see how they shoot. Hopefully they shoot well!! Thanks!

Mike

 

[LRPV]

I'm not trying to say I'm an expert or anything like that, I would say more of a tinkerer. I have mostly loaded for factory rifles, only been messing with custom/semi custom chambers for a couple years. Sometimes an OAL that is close to the SAAMI spec will be the most accurate for me.
Don't completely look past seating them deep just because they are jumping a long ways, you might get a surprise. Doesn't work every time but I had one rifle in particular that had a very long throat and would not group at any depth other than SAAMI or close to it anyway.
Jason

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

I've never tried seating to SAAMI spec before. The only thing about seating to SAAMI spec that bothers me is you're measuring the OAL off of the tip of the bullet. Given that bullets vary in length, you don't get a consistent measurements. I used to measure OAL from the bullets tip and then I found out they have fancy measuring tools called bullet comparators that give you more consistent measurements lol! I'll have to try seating some to SAAMI spec some time and see how it works out for me! Thanks!

Mike

 

[necchi]

The only thing about seating to SAAMI spec that bothers me is you're measuring the OAL off of the tip of the bullet.

Of course, but that doesn't mean a hand loader can't be smarter than that, use his gauge to select an average, and seat "near" what's considered sammi length.

It's just kind of a problem in the hand loading world with all the access to cyber world and information, people read that many Bench Shooters will jam bullets in custom chambered rifles for maximum accuracy, so everyone presumes that jamming automatically gives great accuracy and it's not always so.

Seating depth is a big factor, a wonderfull variable we as loaders can use, but seating long isn't a Golden Rule for accuracy in many factory chambered guns. There are allot of issues to consider beyond just moving immediately too way long or jamming a bullet.

Good luck, experimenting for that magic load is half the fun

 

[LRPV]

Like mentioned above, seat a few measuring to the bullet tip to get an average then use your comparator to get a accurate measurement of where you are actually at. Then you can write that down and know where to be if you move your seater.

Jason

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

I went out and shot today and these bullets did show some promise! I shot a 5 shot group at 100 that wasn't too shabby. This was on top of 47.0gr of Varget, WLR primer, new Win brass with these bullets jumped about .125"! I shot another 5 shot group on top of 51.0gr of Varget and it wasn't as good as the minimum charge. I'm going to have to play with them for a while but, I will get them figured out. Thanks for the info guys, I really do appreciate it!

Mike

 

[CaptainMal]

This might seem "off the wall" but it happened to me. I made my comparitor case with a fired case in 260 Ackley. Thought the case was fine. It did NOT slide far enough into the chamber. Bullet seating
measure was a mess. Finally put a bolt in the rifle and forced the comparitor case into that chamber. After that it sized properly and went in to give me repeatable and reliable measurements.