Sierra 90s loads/velocities in a 223?

[XTR]

With the abject failure of my rifle to shoot Berger 90s I'm going to give the Sierra 90 a try and see what it will do.

In a 223 bolt gun platform (28"barrel) what kind of velocity/loads should I expect?

How is the pressure compared to the Berger 90 VLD? Longer bearing surface, higher pressure maybe?

 

[DukeDuke]

are they a much better option than 80 gr. bullets?

 

[XTR]

are they a much better option than 80 gr. bullets?

If you believe JBM, and use a 10MPH full value cross wind they (S90s) shoot an inch inside of the 80 or 82.5 Bergers assuming 2700 for the Sierra and 2900 for the Bergers, they shoot three to four inches inside of the 75 Amax and the 80 Nosler with the same assumptions.

They only shoot an inch inside of the 80 Amax (with the same assumptions), but the 80 AMax is out of production for at least another yr based on what I've read from Hornady. (I may have enough to give them another go this yr, but if I shoot the Camp Perry mid range matched then I'm going to need more than I currently have)

 

[Taildrag15X]

In mid 05' I gave the Sierra 90's a try thru a bolt gun with 1-7" Krieger, I ran Varget and R-15, CCI-450's, Br's, Remington, and Wolf SRM primers. Best group was with Varget, 450's, Hornady brass, Sierra 90's weight sorted, bullets seated to .015" off (roughly .085" in the neck) but the velocity was low. played with it for what seemed forever, no matter what as soon as I got near 2,700fps I started blowing up bullets, not every one but 1 is 2 too many.

I tried Berger, better all around for me........

 

[XTR]

I tried Berger, better all around for me........

Thanks for the feedback. I picked up some and have a ladder loaded up. I'm going to see how they do, I'm starting with them jammed. We'll see how they do.

As for Bergers....I tried that, I quit

I've also got some 75Amax's here, I'm going to give those a whirl too. If I can't get that to work I'll fall back to the Noslers I've got a few thousand of both the 77s and 80s but JBM says that they don't run as well in the wind as the others but if they won't shoot it doesn't matter.

 

[XTR]

I need to do another test at longer range to see but they did OK in a test today at 200 yards. The groups weren't spectacular but I'll fiddle with them a bit and take it out to 300 next trip and see how it shoots. I need to check the brass out and see if it got beat up at all. I have a hard time telling anything about pressure from a 223 with a Tula 223M primer. Have to see how the primer seating feels. Was running 2800± or so over 2000MR.

Now the loads I tested with the 75 Amax... YOWSA My first 3 shots went into two holes, and you could cover it a dime. The others in the test were under .25MOA to .3 MOA vertical. I may give up a point or two later in the afternoon to wind but the morning X count should be impressive if this bullet shoots like this at 600. Considering that it is a 223 in a 18lb rifle and the recoil is so light I can see the hits I should be able to fill the scorecard as fast as the pit service can keep up. That would be sweet in that 1st relay in the morning. ;D

 

[XTR]

Ever want to just pile it all up and have a yard sale?

This gun and I do not have a good relationship, maybe it's still pissed over being converted from a 6.5-284 to a 223. My latest load testing wasn't setting any group records but was giving me hope.

I've got two loads that looked like they are working after two trips to the range tweaking the OCW groups, going from 3 shot groups to 5 shot groups across what looked like it could be a node, but still some things weren't making sense.

Yesterday I shot at 600 yards. Three decent sub .5MOA 10 shot groups, then two that went wonky, huge vertical strings. 2" wide and 7" tall. WTF

Brought the rifle in tonight to clean and found that apparently at some point this winter I've had it apart and put it back in the stock finger tight. Not one of the action screws was torqued.

Three trips to the range shooting workups with 2 different bullets. grrr...

Looks like I load up another OCW test.

 

[r bose]

XTR, at one time Berger made a non VLD 90g bullet very much like the Sierra. Both had a very long bearing surface and you couldn't push either one very fast. If I remember correctly, I was 1 to 1+1/2 grains lower in powder charge using the non VLD 90's compared to the VLD's. Berger discontinued the 90g non VLD's a while back because they had no real advantage over the 80-82g bullets available. (my opinion but I heard they just didn't sell well).

You've done the math. I'd stick with a 82g Berger. I think it's the best in class (80-82g bullets) and very easy to get to shoot.

 

[XTR]

Range drop MOA "Wind MOA Wt Make MV 600 -75.0 -11.9 22.0 3.5 90 VLD 2850 600 -77.8 -12.4 22.0 3.5 185 Jugg 2800 600 -77.8 -12.4 22.6 3.6 90 VLD 2800 600 -81.8 -13.0 23.2 3.7 90 VLD 2700 600 -89.4 -14.2 24.6 3.9 90 VLD 2650 600 -93.5 -14.9 25.3 4.0 90 VLD 2600 600 -81.1 -12.9 25.3 4.0 90 Sierra 2800 600 -88.5 -14.1 26.7 4.3 90 Sierra 2700 600 -77.6 -12.4 27.1 4.3 80 Amax 2900 600 -78.1 -12.4 27.6 4.4 80 VLD 2900 600 -78.2 -12.5 27.7 4.4 82 Berger 2900 600 -74.2 -11.8 28.6 4.6 75 Amax 3000 600 -80.8 -12.9 30.2 4.8 75 Amax 2900 600 -82.2 -13.1 31.6 5.0 80 Nosler 2900 600 -84.3 -13.4 33.6 5.4 75 Hdy BTHP 2900

This is what JBM spits out if you run them all. Personally I would rather shoot Hornadys at 2/3 the price of Bergers or Sierra 90s

 

[Laurie]

If I remember correctly, I was 1 to 1+1/2 grains lower in powder charge using the non VLD 90's compared to the VLD's. [r. bose]

You were cautious, or maybe unlucky in your chamber throat. 0.5gn down with either Re15 or VarGet in my 1,000 yard 223/90 loads reducing MVs by around 50 fps for the 90gn Berger LR BT v the VLD. That was a reduction from 2,912 fps with the VLD to 2,860 with the BT in my Re15 loads.

Presumably, the LRBT didn't sell as well as the VLD, and yet I know more long range 223 competitors (from a small sample admittedly) who preferred the BT to the VLD. In any event, I still have a thousand or thereabouts that I use solely in short to mid-range F/TR in a rebarrelled Savage 12 LRPV with a 26 inch barrel.

A modest load of Viht N150 sees superb groups and small MV spreads at ~ 2,650 fps, performance that's good enough to take on all but the best 308 loads at 600 yards especially as the 223 is so easy to shoot. (The extra wind drift is just under 5% greater than with a good 155gn 308 at 3,000 fps, equating to 0.022-MOA additional movement per 1 mph of wind speed change for a true 90-deg crosswind at 600 yards. 0.022-MOA x 1.047 x 6 = the extra change in inches or all of 0.14 inches for a wind change miscalled by the equivalent of 1 mph compared to 308/155.)

The Berger VLD v LR BT pressure issue is not about bearing surface length. The VLD's is 0.399", the BT's 0.371", and the SMK's is 0.393". The two Bergers measure the same diameter as best I can tell, so there is maybe a jacket thickness and/or lead core hardness issue at play.