Sierra 90

[Twdmar]

Does anyone have any experience with the 90 gr matchkings made recently? Some of our local f-class shooters reported blow ups several years ago. However, I have read online Sierra changed the bullet a bit.
I was recently given a box of new 90s and have a .223 service rifle with a 20", 1/7 barrel. I have shot 80s over 2800 fps with this rifle, perhaps i can make 2650 that Sierra recommends.
Most of the the info here is several years old and I am hoping someone has recent insights. Thanks!

 

[Robert Weidler]

Does anyone have any experience with the 90 gr matchkings made recently? Some of our local f-class shooters reported blow ups several years ago. However, I have read online Sierra changed the bullet a bit.
I was recently given a box of new 90s and have a .223 service rifle with a 20", 1/7 barrel. I have shot 80s over 2800 fps with this rifle, perhaps i can make 2650 that Sierra recommends.
Most of the the info here is several years old and I am hoping someone has recent insights. Thanks!

I shoot SMK 90s in my 224 V-AI 6.5 twist at 2860 fps to fire form cases. So far, 100 cases, 100 bullets and 100 holes in targets. No problem with shredding jackets. I talked with Sierra rep before starting this project and he did say that Sierra had redesigned the 90 to make it hold up. Next step is to do load development on formed AI cases (just waiting for the ranges to re-open) and I expect to run these at near 2950. Time will tell.

 

[JAlfred]

I am pushing them at 2750 in a 1 in 7 twist without issue. Accuracy has been very respectable. 30" Savage FTR

 

[linebaugh]

I shot them for a season in a 22250AI in a 7tw at around 3075 and never lost a bullet that I am aware of. The SMK is by far the strongest of the 22 heavies.

 

[Twdmar]

Thanks guys, now to see if they can go fast enough for me.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Intermittently over the last 10 months or so, I have been more or less trying to blow up some SMK 90s that I received for testing purposes from a friend that works at Sierra, using a barrel that has previously caused jacket failures with 90 VLDs and 88 ELDMs. I have been pushing them to ~2850 fps out of a 30" barreled .223 Rem. None have failed as yet. It's a very good bullet design, and the jackets seem to be tough as nails.

 

[ayetee]

How about the Berger 90Gr. VLDs, do they hold up at 2950 from a 7 twist barrel?

 

[McFred]

I have a 30" 4-groove 1:7 Krieger. I only tried a sample of 5, but I got the 90SMKs to disintegrate. One of the five didn't print on paper. Velocity was about 3300fps. I had to get a special .2177" pilot to chamber the barrel as anything larger had a lot of drag and a few shots has the heavy palma barrel quite hot to the touch compared to the replacement barrel with similar loads. Load was about 47gr of Retumbo.

 

[Bulletman]

Twdmar,
No failures with the 90 MK have been experienced since the jacket change. I believe you can use them with confidence.

McFred,
The combination you had is extremely hard on bullets. Even number of lands and grooves and a very tight bore combined with a very large powder charge.

 

[watercam]

Thanks guys, now to see if they can go fast enough for me.

Sierra 90s launched at 2770 fps are traveling about 1450 fps at 1000yds. near sea level. Bit faster at 4600'. I run a very long throat/24.7gr. Varget.

 

[skiutah02]

Like Ned, I've intermittently tried to get the new 90 smk to blow up. Shot about 500 so far in a 223R with ISSF reamer chamber. About 400 of them have been in a node at 2805 with a 1:7 4-G and are super accurate, no disintegrations. While testing, I took some up past 2900 and the Lapua brass gave up before the bullet. I have a new 22BRX I've been playing with that I will really be able to drop the hammer on the 90s (1:6.5, 34in). I've been able to get the 95SMK to 3100+ with unbelievable accuracy and no jacket failures, but with the warmer temps (did load testing from -15 to 30oF) the load is too hot, but the bullets are very accurate and do not fail. The 90vld and 90smk are next when I can get some agreeable weather here in ND.

600 yd target below doing load confirmation. Shot #8 locked up the bolt and blew the primer at 32oF. Yikes. But accurate....Drew

 

[McFred]

McFred,
The combination you had is extremely hard on bullets.

Oh, I am aware. .

I wonder if I can get Krieger to replace it. Not much use for a 1:7 that will fling the heavies apart.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Like Ned, I've intermittently tried to get the new 90 smk to blow up. Shot about 500 so far in a 223R with ISSF reamer chamber. About 400 of them have been in a node at 2805 with a 1:7 4-G and are super accurate, no disintegrations. While testing, I took some up past 2900 and the Lapua brass gave up before the bullet. I have a new 22BRX I've been playing with that I will really be able to drop the hammer on the 90s (1:6.5, 34in). I've been able to get the 95SMK to 3100+ with unbelievable accuracy and no jacket failures, but with the warmer temps (did load testing from -15 to 30oF) the load is too hot, but the bullets are very accurate and do not fail. The 90vld and 90smk are next when I can get some agreeable weather here in ND.

600 yd target below doing load confirmation. Shot #8 locked up the bolt and blew the primer at 32oF. Yikes. But accurate....Drew

View attachment 1170292

Reading this, I was picturing Darth Vader telling the bounty hunters, "I want them [to reach the target] alive! No disintegrations!"

FWIW - "Darth Rutherford" has a nice ring to it.

For those interested in pushing .224" heavies (~90 gr) past about 2800 fps, there are a couple fairly simple options to minimize the jacket failures that are known to occur with certain manufacturer's bullets: 1) You can reduce the twist rate to 7.0 or less. 2) You can get a barrel with a 0.219"/0.224" land/groove pattern, rather than 0.218"/0.224". Some might argue that gain twist barrels are also a good option, but I have nothing other than anecdotal information about that.

Heat generated at the contact surface between the rifling land and the bullet where the jacket is engraved is largely responsible for jacket failures. For that reason, shorter barrels are also easier on jackets, as is minimizing long strings of fire in high temperature conditions.

 

[Bulletman]

Ned Ludd knows stuff!!!

 

[Ned Ludd]

Ned Ludd knows stuff!!!

Tommy - I haven't forgotten about sending you a detailed report regarding those 90s, but the load development aspect has taken longer than I would have expected. This pesky virus thing floating around hasn't helped the process. I hope to see you at the Sierra Cup in May, the current national pandemic situation notwithstanding. Regardless, I hope you all are doing well and that the fish are still biting.

 

[Bulletman]

No hurry on a report Greg, good things take time.

Will be in the water tomorrow if all goes well!

 

[natdscott]

Does anyone have any experience with the 90 gr matchkings made recently? Some of our local f-class shooters reported blow ups several years ago. However, I have read online Sierra changed the bullet a bit.
I was recently given a box of new 90s and have a .223 service rifle with a 20", 1/7 barrel. I have shot 80s over 2800 fps with this rifle, perhaps i can make 2650 that Sierra recommends.
Most of the the info here is several years old and I am hoping someone has recent insights. Thanks!

Don’t.

I was 3rd in 2017.

Full disclosure: with Freeman there, winning was never an option, and it wasn’t really close.

But it’s a waste of your life, if you want to be really competitive, because the AR10s are gonna beat your brains in, even if it isn’t him. EVERYBODY told me not to...Praslick, Litz, Theurer, Warner..get the idea? I probably talked it over with Whidden, and I know I did with Carlos as well.

Being who I am, I did it anyway.

I have a purpose-built CM Bartlein 5R 8-6.5 gainer left twist in a 105 freebore by Scandale, and it would shoot Berger 90s in the zeroes and teens for elevation at 100.

It still shot like sh*~ at 1,000 with enough regularity to look more like work than a hobby.

In conclusion, a 20” .223 for 90s is a terrible idea, especially in a 7 twist.

 

[Twdmar]

Don’t.

I was 3rd in 2017.

Full disclosure: with Freeman there, winning was never an option, and it wasn’t really close.

But it’s a waste of your life, if you want to be really competitive, because the AR10s are gonna beat your brains in, even if it isn’t him. EVERYBODY told me not to...Praslick, Litz, Theurer, Warner..get the idea? I probably talked it over with Whidden, and I know I did with Carlos as well.

Being who I am, I did it anyway.

I have a purpose-built CM Bartlein 5R 8-6.5 gainer left twist in a 105 freebore by Scandale, and it would shoot Berger 90s in the zeroes and teens for elevation at 100.

It still shot like sh*~ at 1,000 with enough regularity to look more like work than a hobby.

In conclusion, a 20” .223 for 90s is a terrible idea, especially in a 7 twist.

I dont plan to try this at 1k. 223 at that distance is like a super high maintenance girlfriend. We get high winds here, as Drew can attest to. On paper at 600 yds they are great, but then so is the new berger 85. Mostly I was just trying to think what the hell I'd do with these bullets I've got. Then I remembered the new upper i have for the summer is 7.7 twist and my old one a 1/7.
Once I remember that say to myself, self you're dumb. Maybe I'll trade them to some 22-250 owner for some 80s. I know those work.

 

[natdscott]

I dont plan to try this at 1k. 223 at that distance is like a super high maintenance girlfriend. We get high winds here, as Drew can attest to. On paper at 600 yds they are great, but then so is the new berger 85. Mostly I was just trying to think what the hell I'd do with these bullets I've got. Then I remembered the new upper i have for the summer is 7.7 twist and my old one a 1/7.
Once I remember that say to myself, self you're dumb. Maybe I'll trade them to some 22-250 owner for some 80s. I know those work.

Apologies. I interpolated too much into your question.

7 twist has worked, but not reliably, and works best at very high chamber pressure and high altitude. Makes sense.

Another option is to load them backwards and punch things with them. CAREful with the charges though...that’s a ton of nose down in the casing.

You’re about right re: that high maintenance girlfriend. Had both..might prefer the LR .223...but it would be close.

 

[Twdmar]

Apologies. I interpolated too much into your question.

7 twist has worked, but not reliably, and works best at very high chamber pressure and high altitude. Makes sense.

Another option is to load them backwards and punch things with them. CAREful with the charges though...that’s a ton of nose down in the casing.

You’re about right re: that high maintenance girlfriend. Had both..might prefer the LR .223...but it would be close.

No worries, asking a few questions here saves a guy wasted gas, powder, time etc!