Sick Rifle?

[Rtheurer]

I am Kinda at a loss and am seeking some advice or suggestions.

I have a 1000 yard rifle that I Only shoot for the Prone Long Range game out of Sling and coat. Been shooting this particular rifle and Cartridge since about 2006. Put it aside for a couple years while I chased a spot on the US Palma Team. Just a few weeks ago After I had done another load work up I have found I am having the same issues arise with 3 barrels and several loads and had thought it was me or the loads but just today I had a AHAA thought.
It seems like this particular rifle shoots lights out until the barrel gets hot and the hotter the Ambeint Temp is out, the sooner the groups starts to open up and way off call. What in the world could cause a rifle to start going crazy when the barrel gets hot. Not just one barrel but Three of different makes. Jets to about shot 14 and all hell breaks loose. Until then it flippin hammers.

Rifle Specs.
Stiller Preditor Long Action.
Kreiger 1:8 Twist Med Palma, 31"
Robertson Fiber glass stock, copy of the H&H Prone, Piller bedded.
6.5X284, Go to load for several barrels, 52gr H4831SC, 210 M Lapua Brass
Also shot H1000 real well. 142's and 140 Hybrids.

I had Two thoughts... Maybe the bedding has gone bad? Its about 10 years old. The original Firing pin spring but seems to be plenty good?
I am out of ideas.
Russel

 

[Raythemanroe]

Barrel burner

Ray

 

[Rtheurer]

Thanks but that is not helpful. Next.

 

[watercam]

Might be a great question for Al Warner. I suspect some kind of bedding issue combined with a hot barrel. Odd that it would just start out of the blue. Perhaps check the clearance between the barrel and channel walls both cold and hot. Might expand just enough to touch something.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Thanks but that is not helpful. Next.

Ever try backing your load back a tenth? Probably at the edge of a node and the temp puts you over..JMHO


Ray

 

[gme]

Russ,
have you had a chance to monitor how the barrel fouls as it heats up?, I've had one rifle (6MM Remington/115 DTAC) that would act much the same way, turned out when it got very hot (long string fire on hot days) the copper would build very quickly near the muzzle, the gun was crap until I cleaned it out

 

[Ggmac]

Copper near muzzle is a result of the copper ( in suspension ) cooling and depositing near muzzle . Maybe but doubt it's the illness .
I had a similar issue , the powder I was using , had a retardant in it . Can't remember what it was but was for , flash , temp , wear preventative , but once I changed powders , rifle was all better . The powder I use now is slightly slower , but accurate over a longer string .
The case was a modified 6.5 rem mag .

 

[billlarson]

I`ve shot 6.5x284 for a few years prior to going with a 7mm..... using only quality barrels...got about 6 I could set back...I could usually count on supreme accuracy for about 700 rnds....after that throat wear would tear up bullets and void accuracy.One barrel from a prominent mfg. went at 400 rnds. during a match.
I kept barrels clean after every match 70-100 rnds......trying to avoid wear.....
Without a borescope you are guessing......
But after shooting today at 1000 yds... was talking to a friend who still competes and he has similar problems with his 6.5x06......running 142`s at 3400 ft/sec.... good barrel/good throat ,he has figured thru the same results you have had..... he has to clean at less than 50 rnds.
Then gun will hammer again..... try it.....
bill

 

[Rtheurer]

Here is what has got me. Its not like its just the current barrel that is on that does it. Its been the last three. One a Bartlein, one a Broughton, and now a Kreiger. So this is what is leading me to think its bedding or action related. One of our local Bechrest guys suggested shooting a sting until it starts going crazy, then let it cool off plenty good. Then go back to shooting to see if it starts shooting well again or continues to be poor. This may help in seeing if its fouling related or maybe Heat related or god only knows what else. I will take my Bore scope with to the range to see how it looks and also try cleaning it to see if that also works.
I have been shooting this case for quite some time with some great success and None of this crazy stuff. Its not like its new to me. I have a pile of barrels used up over the 10 years or so.

 

[ebb]

I used to use H 4381 in my 6.5-284 but like VV165 much better. Maybe load 16 or 17 and see how it does with a different powder.

 

[Steelnecktie]

If your bedding was bad, it would shoot bad cold too. Just what I've seen, Unless you have bedding under barrel.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

That is a pretty hot cartridge. I assume your shooting relativity quick. Barrel heat can cause jacket failure of the bullet. That would be my guess. Get away from the hot 6.5mms.

 

[OldManTA]

I am Kinda at a loss and am seeking some advice or suggestions.

I have a 1000 yard rifle that I Only shoot for the Prone Long Range game out of Sling and coat. Been shooting this particular rifle and Cartridge since about 2006. Put it aside for a couple years while I chased a spot on the US Palma Team. Just a few weeks ago After I had done another load work up I have found I am having the same issues arise with 3 barrels and several loads and had thought it was me or the loads but just today I had a AHAA thought.
It seems like this particular rifle shoots lights out until the barrel gets hot and the hotter the Ambeint Temp is out, the sooner the groups starts to open up and way off call. What in the world could cause a rifle to start going crazy when the barrel gets hot. Not just one barrel but Three of different makes. Jets to about shot 14 and all hell breaks loose. Until then it flippin hammers.

Rifle Specs.
Stiller Preditor Long Action.
Kreiger 1:8 Twist Med Palma, 31"
Robertson Fiber glass stock, copy of the H&H Prone, Piller bedded.
6.5X284, Go to load for several barrels, 52gr H4831SC, 210 M Lapua Brass
Also shot H1000 real well. 142's and 140 Hybrids.

I had Two thoughts... Maybe the bedding has gone bad? Its about 10 years old. The original Firing pin spring but seems to be plenty good?
I am out of ideas.
Russel

Russ,
Here is my thinking on your problem. It exists over several barrels, and it manifests itself after the barrel gets hot. Those are constants. It could be a case of fouling build up accelerating with heat and, the powder temperature of the charge in the cartridge as it sits in the chamber may be going up enough to increase the chamber pressure significantly. Early on I used to shoot a 300 Winchester Magnum in a Schulz & Larsen 54 action with a straight Douglas barrel. The combination built up heat quickly and if I took more than a count of 10 to get my shot off I would have to remove the cartridge and put another one in. The cartridge I removed was almost too hot to touch. If I persisted I would have an impact in the 9 ring when the last shot was an X. I was using 74 grs. of H4831 at the time behind a Lapua D46/185.
I hope that provides you with some useful information.
Tom Alves

 

[338 Mollett]

I shoot the same case and the same load Russ in sling and f open.It could be a powder issue try a different lot of powder or try moly bullets.Good Luck !

 

[clowdis]

Like Gary my first thought would be that the bore is fouling on you. Try cleaning while it's still hot and go back to shooting and see if it's still a problem. My second thought is that if every barrel is doing the same thing then it isn't the barrel. There could be something wrong with your bedding or maybe a screw rubbing inside a pillar. It's going to be something small like clearance on one side of the recoil lug and none on the other side (being a Stiller action I assume the lug is pinned to the receiver). It may be wise to go back and rebed making sure the screws do not make contact with the pillar bores. Last but not least, there is a reason I don't shoot 6.5-284 anymore. On the other hand I've got this SLR that isn't sorted yet .........but we discussed that already

 

[1shot]

Russ,
I'm with Clowdis on this. I know you and your shooting skills, the load is probably fine. I'd look for clearance issues first, cleaner powder like N-165 or H-4350 last.
PM me for load data.
Lloyd

 

[Frank Hull]

Just my take on this. Check the barrel channel for touch. Try taking some JB to one of the barrels. Then clean as usual. Take the thing apart and apply talc or baby powder to the bedding. Torque the action to say 85 inch pounds. Then try some 142 SMK w/48.5 of H4350 in a LaPua case, .010 jump and your favorite primer.

 

[Rtheurer]

Well Fellas I still don't know what it is. But it seemed to have stopped. I took the action out of the stock and everything looked ok. I made sure everything was clean and put it back together.
Tried a New powder with a known bullet and its known jump. and Bam it shooting. Took it to a 1000 yard match and in one of the matches I shot it with the scope on and shot a 199-13X's. Solid X count with one low shot off call. It was holding fantastic elevation. Though in the back of my mind lingers the previous issues.

Not sure IF I had some trash in there or what but even the ammo I shot last with the issues shot OK at 600yards today. ( H1000) Weird.

Hope it stays this way.

 

[Ggmac]

If you go back to the powder and it starts again you'll see what it could be . I didn't believe it till I had a friend ( old DuPont employee ) find out what was new in its old powder and why .
What ever it is , I'm glad you got it !

 

[Riesel]

May the Rifle Gods shine on you and the Gremlins stay far away.....................