ShotMarker

[Krogen]

I think the answers I have received thus far will likely help us avoid problems with connection and shots not being counted - Thanks again everyone!

So this leaves the question about sensors which appears to be not connected sometimes. If one can be sure that it is connected and the cord is good, then does that leave the possibility of sensor failure?

I surmise it's not the sensor itself, but the jack you plug the cable into. I've seen them get loose; sloppy loose! And some cable plugs are 3.5 mm and others are 0.125" Not much difference for sure, but with tolerances I found that 3.5 mm plugs worked better. Could be the plating on the plug too. I replaced a number of cables on our 14 position system and it solved most problems. The jacks in a couple microphones got so loose I just replaced the mics. I'm tempted to replaced the jacks in the troublesome mics, but that's more fooling than I want to deal with right now.

Also be sure your transmitter is in line of sight to the access point. Initially, ours were mounted below the target frame by as much as 12". They were there because, hitting the transmitter is expensive - a $500 fix. The way our butts are set up, some of those transmitters were slightly obscured. When they were relocated to the top right corner of the target frame, performance improved.

 

[jlow]

I surmise it's not the sensor itself, but the jack you plug the cable into. I've seen them get loose; sloppy loose! And some cable plugs are 3.5 mm and others are 0.125" Not much difference for sure, but with tolerances I found that 3.5 mm plugs worked better. Could be the plating on the plug too. I replaced a number of cables on our 14 position system and it solved most problems. The jacks in a couple microphones got so loose I just replaced the mics. I'm tempted to replaced the jacks in the troublesome mics, but that's more fooling than I want to deal with right now.

Also be sure your transmitter is in line of sight to the access point. Initially, ours were mounted below the target frame by as much as 12". They were there because, hitting the transmitter is expensive - a $500 fix. The way our butts are set up, some of those transmitters were slightly obscured. When they were relocated to the top right corner of the target frame, performance improved.

Some excellent points.

The jacks we are aware of and in fact we have built a jack tester to check each cord before we use it to be sure that it has continuance. The problem for the club in the past is people taking them off at the end of a match was in a hurry to leave and pull them off by the cord instead of the connector itself. Having said so, we still cannot be 100% sure that the female part on the sensor hub is giving identical connection as the testing device - it takes two to tangle.

We are thinking of replacing some of the cables because they are getting old and some of them are not long enough. They are not long enough because since I came onboard this month, I have moved the sensor hub from the top of the frame to the 2x4 that the target frames sit on. I did this because as you all know the sensor hubs are $600 out of the full $800 of the system. By moving the hubs about 7in lower than the target frame, the target hubs now sits below grade into the pits and physically cannot be seen or shot from any of the shooting lines. As such, I do use the antenna wire to locate the antenna to the middle of the frame (not as high as yours) but since it is still line of sight, that appears not to be the problem.

 

[Krogen]

Good to hear your transmitter location is working for you. If I think about it this Wednesday, I'll take a photo of our setup. We have the transmitter permanently mounted, and the cables tacked to the frame. They're mounted on edge or "bladed." That presents a smaller visible cross-section for errant shots. We leave the microphones in place and wired up. This greatly speeds setup. We're lazy, so we have small wheels mounted to the bottom of the frames. It's simple to roll out the target frames, turn on the transmitters and hoist the frames in the racks.

When we're done we roll the frames into storage and put the transmitters on charge. There a charger overhead with cables for each transmitter using magnetic USB connections. With this setup we avoid wear and tear on the micro-USB in the transmitter, and the 3.5 mm sockets in the microphones and transmitter.

Laziness is the mother of invention!

 

[jlow]

Good to hear your transmitter location is working for you. If I think about it this Wednesday, I'll take a photo of our setup. We have the transmitter permanently mounted, and the cables tacked to the frame. They're mounted on edge or "bladed." That presents a smaller visible cross-section for errant shots. We leave the microphones in place and wired up. This greatly speeds setup. We're lazy, so we have small wheels mounted to the bottom of the frames. It's simple to roll out the target frames, turn on the transmitters and hoist the frames in the racks.

When we're done we roll the frames into storage and put the transmitters on charge. There a charger overhead with cables for each transmitter using magnetic USB connections. With this setup we avoid wear and tear on the micro-USB in the transmitter, and the 3.5 mm sockets in the microphones and transmitter.

Laziness is the mother of invention!

We too are lazy - LOL! but we have less options than you have because we are jerry rigging it to work on the old frames. But here is a photo I took of a few of the club frames with the sensor on. Notice where the berm is and why the sensor hubs which are 7" lower simply cannot be shot.

 

[sfinn1]

I think the answers I have received thus far will likely help us avoid problems with connection and shots not being counted - Thanks again everyone!

So this leaves the question about sensors which appears to be not connected sometimes. If one can be sure that it is connected and the cord is good, then does that leave the possibility of sensor failure?

Sensor hub problem is rare. Initial set up is where you can have a problem with sensor hubs. Make sure the lights aren't blinking and you have connectivity to your tablet or phone. If that is good, you'll know all is well before the match. Of course, make sure all are charged.

 

[quest450]

it seems like a nightmare IMO of course

 

[memilanuk]

We've had similar issues off and on for a while on our range ShotMarkers. We went 'round and 'round with both the plugs and the jacks. The 'new' cables they sell now are definitely an improvement over the originals, and we have *most* of those issues sorted. I just wish there was a place to find those cables state-side; not a fan of dealing with Canada Post. One particular unit is particularly finicky; I'm about ready to just order a replacement and retire this one to backup duty.

Oddly enough, my personal ShotMarker has been trouble free since day one.

 

[sfinn1]

We've had similar issues off and on for a while on our range ShotMarkers. We went 'round and 'round with both the plugs and the jacks. The 'new' cables they sell now are definitely an improvement over the originals, and we have *most* of those issues sorted. I just wish there was a place to find those cables state-side; not a fan of dealing with Canada Post. One particular unit is particularly finicky; I'm about ready to just order a replacement and retire this one to backup duty.

Oddly enough, my personal ShotMarker has been trouble free since day one.

Yes, those cables can be a pain in the back side. I think those cables that have worked in the past probably just need a new rubber "O" ring. i doubt the prong wears out. But good luck finding replacements.

 

[Krogen]

We've had similar issues off and on for a while on our range ShotMarkers. We went 'round and 'round with both the plugs and the jacks. The 'new' cables they sell now are definitely an improvement over the originals, and we have *most* of those issues sorted. I just wish there was a place to find those cables state-side; not a fan of dealing with Canada Post. One particular unit is particularly finicky; I'm about ready to just order a replacement and retire this one to backup duty.

Oddly enough, my personal ShotMarker has been trouble free since day one.

Cables are available at a reasonable cost from Digikey. You can order various lengths to suit your target frames. I bought the cables shown below for our targets over a year ago. They have a tough sheath and good contact plating. They're still working fine.

Digikey's website can be a challenge to navigate if you're not electrically-inclined. If the cable in the links isn't quite what you want, use the search engine to fine Tripp Lite branded cables with 3.5mm plugs on each end. You can probably find the same cables at www.mouser.com Digikey and Mouser are both well-established electronic parts suppliers.

P312-012 | DigiKey Electronics

Order today, ships today. P312-012 – Cable Stereo (3 Conductor, TRS) Phone Plug, 3.5mm (1/8") To Phone Plug, 3.5mm (1/8") 12.0' (3.66m) from Tripp Lite. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.

www.digikey.com

https://assets.tripplite.com/product-pdfs/en/p312012.pdf

 

[Krogen]

We too are lazy - LOL! but we have less options than you have because we are jerry rigging it to work on the old frames. But here is a photo I took of a few of the club frames with the sensor on. Notice where the berm is and why the sensor hubs which are 7" lower simply cannot be shot.

Our setup has some similarities to yours. We also use the old frames, but our target boards are removable. We lift the boards into "hooks" on the metal frames and then raise the whole assembly to shooting height. The frames date from decades ago. I doubt many folks miss pulling targets in the butts!

Here are some photos showing our scheme. The boards are kept in a bunker and then rolled out, placed in the frames and hoisted. It doesn't take much longer to do than write about it.

 

[rlporter507]

My tablet always looses connection with the access point. I have to refresh it to start seeing my shots again.

mine also, a friend has the same tablet and his does not. but i have 2 other tablets that never loose contact.
ive looked at settings, had my son look, and it all looks the same to us. so i use the one that works.

 

[Sandstorm]

i use the one that works.

This too is a concern and needs to be addressed......sometimes its the tablet.
However once all items are in synch the system is a dream and so much faster than pulling targets IMO.

 

[jlow]

Need some help as suddenly many of our shotmarker are giving us the message that "The XXXX sensor appears to be disconnected". Looking to understand what can cause this.

Before you answer please know that:
1) the cords are OK and properly inserted as the green light on the sensor hub is not blinking.
2) We plan to use F-class John's idea of tapping the mics and looking at the sensor monitor to see if each responds.

The question is if we cannot find any problem using the sensor monitor, what else can it be that we can fix?

Two obviouse potential problems are the sensor themselves and of course the sensor hub. I think I can zero in to a sensor problem by switching sensors. Obviousely a sensor hub problems is something that we cannot fix and has to be send into Adam.

Outside of what has been mentioned, any other thing that I have not covered that I should look at and that can potentially be fixed by an end user.

 

[memilanuk]

In my experience, with the exact same symptoms, the problem is almost always the plugs. Either the male plug on the cords, or the female socket. Even with the expensive a$$ cords from ShotMarker. It's been driving me nuts on our club targets. Someone here pointed me at Cable Mart; I've been testing their 'premium' cables on one of my personal e-targets. So far so good.

 

[F Class John]

2) We plan to use F-class John's idea of tapping the mics and looking at the sensor monitor to see if each responds.

Please keep in mind that after a certain year the tap test doesn't really work. If I remember right Adam took away the ability to tap test or something so it may help if you have a new system.

 

[jlow]

Thanks guys for the inputs - it is much appreciated.

memilanuk - in terms of the plugs - do you think it is a question of contact or lack of? As such, have anyone tried using something like a "Tune-up Dielectric Grease" to get better contact?

F Class John - so it seems like certain newer versions of the ShotMarker cannot be tested this way? Is that correct?

One very odd error we found at the last match was a shooter's rounds were ending up two minutes to the left (see image). This person is a very good and season shooter with a properly zeroed gun. What could possibly cause that?

The other observation I have is these "The xx sensor appears to be disconnected" seems to always be the top sensors. Having seen so many of these, I find it extremely odd that they never seem to be the bottom sensors.... This seems to also suggest it is not the plug/cables as if they have problems, the problems should be more random?

 

[memilanuk]

in terms of the plugs - do you think it is a question of contact or lack of? As such, have anyone tried using something like a "Tune-up Dielectric Grease" to get better contact?

Sometimes it seems like a problem of some plugs being '1/8"' vs others being '3.5mm'. The fit is not the same. Similarly, I think cheaper cables are probably on the thinner side, even if they say 3.5mm. It's kind of like SAAMI specs for ammo vs chambers... the smallest chamber has to be able to accept the biggest round. Same thing here. Sometimes you get a small plug in a big socket, and any movement (wind, vibration from the bullet hitting the target, etc.) can mess with it.

I don't know if anyone has tried the grease thing... I'd worry about it bridging the gap between the different contact surfaces for the different channels. Unlike a battery cable or spark plug wire, there's more than one conductor in there.

The other observation I have is these "The xx sensor appears to be disconnected" seems to always be the top sensors. Having seen so many of these, I find it extremely odd that they never seem to be the bottom sensors.... This seems to also suggest it is not the plug/cables as if they have problems, the problems should be more random?

The great thing about the ShotMarker using standard audio jacks is that you can easily source them, often locally if you break one the day before a match - unlike the BNC connectors on the SMT G2 systems. DAMHIKT.

The bad thing about the ShotMarker using standard audio jacks is that they're just not a very robust/secure connection. Most people have their targets built so the wires hang straight down, with the top sensors having more cable pulling down against the plug than anywhere else. Think about that for a minute.

I took a tip from a friend who ran pvc conduit around his frame on the backside so the wires are 'permanently' installed. I ended up using panduit/cord track instead, but you get the idea. The top cables poke thru the backer immediately under the bracket, and the only weight/strain on the jack is a short drip loop of cable. Colored electrical tape on the other end helps make sure you plug the right cable into the right spot.

I won't say it'll completely eliminate any and all gremlins, but it's knocked them back considerably.

 

[rardoin]

Thanks guys for the inputs - it is much appreciated.

do you think it is a question of contact or lack of? As such, have anyone tried using something like a "Tune-up Dielectric Grease" to get better contact?

Yes, it is being done. Bayou Rifles uses die-electric grease on the connection to help with water intrusion. I am not aware of any issues as a result. at @johnnyi @dskogman , got ya' ears on, good buddy?

 

[coford]

Dirt can be a problem with both the cable ends and the female jack. The cables can get dirt or debris on them while winding up and the jacks can get dirty also. I think it was Adam (but maybe not) that recommended using canned air to blow out the jack holes and to be sure the cable ends were kept clean. After we started following this recommendation our problems diminished to near zero. If a problem reoccurs on the same target and or corner, we first change the cable and if that doesn't fix it, we change the sensor. The system is simple to maintain but needs some minor maintenance. If all else fails - CALL ADAM!