ShotMarker set up for multiple targets

[Turbulent Turtle]

Thanks, this is very helpful.

We envision four targets will probably cover our events to start with but if the program grows we could grow to six or more. We are hopeful that the advantages of etargets will grow the program. Also we are learning how to set up and operate the ShotMarker and most of what we need to know is easy even for us "Old Dogs".

We need to train most of our shooters as to how to use the monitor to score and view their shots and groups. But we need a few that know how to set up for multiple target use.

For 4 or 6 or 10 or 20 targets, you only need and want one AP. Introducing another AP is just confusing for everyone.

What you need to understand is that the sensor hubs have no memory about the target and the shots whatsoever. All that information is stored on the AP.

Set up your targets, and use the same sensor hub on the same target number every time so you don't have to reprogram stuff every time. Fire up the AP and then fire up the sensor hubs on each target and the target line will build automagically. Add another AP and that's when confusion starts.

We are working on documenting best practices at BRI with the goal of posting them at the website, but everything takes time.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I agree the instructions need to have more detail to them. Engineers/programmers should never write instruction or repair manuals. Their thought processes are not the same as the average person.

I resemble that remark; I make a special effort trying to explain complex technical issues to knuckle-draggers.

 

[Rtheurer]

Thanks, this is very helpful.

We envision four targets will probably cover our events to start with but if the program grows we could grow to six or more. We are hopeful that the advantages of etargets will grow the program. Also we are learning how to set up and operate the ShotMarker and most of what we need to know is easy even for us "Old Dogs".

We need to train most of our shooters as to how to use the monitor to score and view their shots and groups. But we need a few that know how to set up for multiple target use.

Are you trying to use more than one access point when using your four targets in a Rifle Match? You dont need to do that and really should not do that for a Rifle Match. For individual practice on the same range. The above information is excellent! Great job guys.
However. Lets say Clyde brings his System to a match and I bring mine, 3 others do as well, Only one access point (Clyde's)should be turned on and used. The other 4 should be left in the bag.
Clyde just turn yours on. That one access point will run like 20 plus targets. However, that Access Point will have all the Match information on it. And the Match Director should have it so he can go back and look at the match if he needs to for what ever reason. ( maybe some wrote down a wrong score or something like that)

 

[chkunz]

I resemble that remark; I make a special effort trying to explain complex technical issues to knuckle-draggers.

I resemble that remark; I make a special effort trying to explain complex technical issues to knuckle-draggers.

No offence intended for you or those geniuses that give us these wonderful toys. But in another life I managed engineering projects that had instrumentation and controls imbedded. The people that designed these very complex systems did some fantastic work but they hated to do the documentation, operation procedures, maintenance procedures, as built drawings, etc. I would include the money and schedule to get this delivered with the project but it was not fun work for them and I had difficulty gettingng done.

 

[chkunz]

Are you trying to use more than one access point when using your four targets in a Rifle Match? You dont need to do that and really should not do that for a Rifle Match. For individual practice on the same range. The above information is excellent! Great job guys.
However. Lets say Clyde brings his System to a match and I bring mine, 3 others do as well, Only one access point (Clyde's)should be turned on and used. The other 4 should be left in the bag.
Clyde just turn yours on. That one access point will run like 20 plus targets. However, that Access Point will have all the Match information on it. And the Match Director should have it so he can go back and look at the match if he needs to for what ever reason. ( maybe some wrote down a wrong score or something like that)

Thanks for the input. I do understand about only having one access point for the two to twenty multiple target option. I understand a lot about the concept at a high level but do not have a detailed step by step set of instructions to go by. I am looking to see if anyone has done this so I do not have to try to do it myself.

I also understand that for four or less targets there is a "channel" option and for two to twenty targets there is a multiple target option but I do not know if the channel option is something I should ever consider.

 

[chkunz]

Set up your targets, and use the same sensor hub on the same target number every time so you don't have to reprogram stuff every time. Fire up the AP and then fire up the sensor hubs on each target and the target line will build automagically. Ad another AP and that's when confusion starts.

Good information thanks.

 

[chkunz]

We are working on documenting best practices at BRI with the goal of posting them at the website, but everything takes time.

That is great that you are planning to do that. Where (which web site) will you be posting this information?

 

[PatMiles]

[QUOTE="Turbulent Turtle, post: 37702304, member: 1281654"

We are working on documenting best practices at BRI with the goal of posting them at the website, but everything takes time.[/QUOTE]

I would also like to know the website where this info will be posted.

 

[Strafem30MM]

We have recently adopted the ShotMarker system for our range. We have 8 targets carriers with 16 target frames. The target frames each have the brackets for the ShotMarker microphones and sensor hubs. We have two target frames for each Target carrier since we shoot 600 and 1000yd matches. Since the black centers for the 600yd targets are 36” wide and the 1000yd target centers are 44” wide. Therefore two per target carrier. Additionally, these target frames are assigned to a target carrier. As an example, target carrier 1 (or target 1 from the shooter perspective) will have Target Frame TF1-600 and TF1-1000. By doing this we can position sling shooters at any firing point.

Each sensor hub is specific to the target frame that it is associated with. No matter how we tried to keep the dimensions of the bracket placement the same, they were always off by a millimeter or two. Additionally, the microphones are kept with the target frame. When we calibrated the targets, to get the acoustic center, they were different from target to target, even for those targets that were identical.

When we start a match, the Match Director will configure the target carriers to the target frames in use. So if we are shooting the 600 mid range match, we will select the target with the 36” black center. The ShotMarker system will then be setup to use TF1-600, TF2-600, TF3-600, etc. for each firing point

We only use one Access Point at the line. Although, we have two more that are backups. To configure them the same as the first one, we created a backup of the data (target frame information) to a computer and used the restore function to the other Access Points. This alleviated the need to enter 16 target dimensions and calibration data in each Access Point.

Additionally, you have to realize that the caliber and target face that ShotMarker uses is global (meaning all shooters are using the same information.) We have instructed the shooters on how to change the target face and caliber for what they are shooting. Therefore, Sling and F-Class can peacefully coexist. This has to be done for each relay as it resets after the shots are saved or deleted.

At the end of the relay, shooters save their information with their initials and take screen shots for reference.

For those that want to gather more information, then at the end of shooting they can download the Comma Separated File (CSV) to their device. This will download everybody for the day and they can then go through and find their information and delete the rest.

The biggest problem we encountered, was people are unfamiliar with their devices. Additionally, even though you can use a cell phone to view the target, we have found larger screen sizes are best.

Hope this helps
Ed

 

[Strafem30MM]

Here is a handout that we provide to new shooters or as a refresher.

Ed

 

[Acyr]

Newer versions of the AP can handle up to 250 targets. Adam will be releasing a software update very soon that will allow shooters to import/export their shot data from the match access point.

 

[Acyr]

Here is a handout that we provide to new shooters or as a refresher.

Ed

Very nice!

 

[Mudeat]

If 4 or less guys want to meet at the range and shoot over their ShotMarkers, individually, they can by setting each to a different “channel”. That way, each can keep the shot files on their own “access points” for later review. I would recommend that they coordinate this ahead of time to agree on who is going to use which channel, (the AP and sensor hubb remember the channel across power cycles), so set the channel at home ahead of time. When they get to the range they can simply turn-on their ShotMarkers, just like when they are shooting individually. They will show up as Shotmarker, Shotmarker2, Shotmarker3, etc. Select yours and go.

 

[chkunz]

If 4 or less guys want to meet at the range and shoot over their ShotMarkers, individually, they can by setting each to a different “channel”. That way, each can keep the shot files on their own “access points” for later review. I would recommend that they coordinate this ahead of time to agree on who is going to use which channel, (the AP and sensor hubb remember the channel across power cycles), so set the channel at home ahead of time. When they get to the range they can simply turn-on their ShotMarkers, just like when they are shooting individually. They will show up as Shotmarker, Shotmarker1, Shotmarker2, Shotmarker3. Select yours and go.

Thanks, this is helpful.

 

[chkunz]

If 4 or less guys want to meet at the range and shoot over their ShotMarkers, individually, they can by setting each to a different “channel”. That way, each can keep the shot files on their own “access points” for later review. I would recommend that they coordinate this ahead of time to agree on who is going to use which channel, (the AP and sensor hubb remember the channel across power cycles), so set the channel at home ahead of time. When they get to the range they can simply turn-on their ShotMarkers, just like when they are shooting individually. They will show up as Shotmarker, Shotmarker1, Shotmarker2, Shotmarker3. Select yours and go.

Another though, it seems like it can be more than four guys using the four available channels, we just squad the others with the four? What do you think? It sounds like using the four channels for four or less targets has the advantage of simplicity? What do you think?

 

[chkunz]

Shot Markers default channel is 1. At Ben Avery if we have more than 4 shooters with Shot Markers we use one access point set to channel 2. It needs to be the ONLY access point on the line. Everyone needs to have their sensor hub set to channel 2 also and be connected to Shotmarker2 wifi.
If it's 4 or less shooters with Shot Markers then we all just make sure we are on different channels and do our own thing.

This is helpful, thanks.

 

[DR_2297]

It is pretty easy. Just power up all of the sensor hubs and then power up one (1) access point. Each target can be named or they will show up as a number (#xxx, #yyy, etc). You will have to input the X / Y for the microphone dims for each one and the calibration X / Y for each one. Once saved it will be in that access point from that point on. If you chose to use a different access point the next time then you will need to input all Of the target data again for that access point. The calibration data is not stored in the sensor hub (which is a weakness IMO).

only run 1 access point at a time if possible otherwise you have to change channels for targets on a different access point and at times the systems can get confused or drop signal, etc. have gone through this.

I also suggest an admin lock so ppl can’t go into the system and change things. Make it go through one person who controls the system (MD or CTO, etc)

 

[SWRichmond]

Technical writing is a lost art. There are few who can bridge the gap between developer and user.

 

[chkunz]

Technical writing is a lost art. There are few who can bridge the gap between developer and user.

Well said!

 

[chkunz]

There is definitely a step missing, or additional information that could be added to the instructions when changing channels. We had a heck of a time getting things straight with mine, Brad's, and Jim's to run on 3 channels.



1. Turn on access point, and target sensor hub
2. Pull up shotmarker (192.168.100.1) on your tablet/phone/computer
3. Wait for them to connect to each other and display a target
4. Tap the Globe/settings icon
5. Tap Switch Channel
6. Tap the channel number you want. I clicked #4
7. Tap the target you want to change. There should only be one target displaying unless there are multiple targets turned on when you are doing this. If there are, tap your sensor hub number. The number is on the back of the sensor hub. This step isn't exactly clear in the instructions. It says switch, but should state select or tap the targets/sensor hub you want to change ..
8. WAIT.. WAIT... Wait some more. (not sure if this part is needed, but it seemed to help.) Then Click Green Check Box
9. Access point will reboot. Then wifi will disconnect. When it comes back on, it will be named "Shotmarker4". This may take a few seconds.
10. Connect to Shotmarker4 wifi.
11. Wait some more.
12. Target and Access Point will eventually connect to each other, and you'll be ready to go. It could take a few seconds.

Illustration of step 7.
View attachment 1156109

Thanks, This is the level of detail that I was looking for. I went over this several times and reread the user manual and I think I can get up to four ShotMarker target systems on the four available channels with these instructions. Four ShotMarker targets will fill our needs for the foreseeable future as we build our XTC program. If our needs grow beyond the four ShotMarker targets we will have to go to the Multiple Target set up described in the user manual. At that time it would be good to have a set of instructions with the level of detail you have provided here for the four channel set up. Maybe someone with the capability will help us with this. I am sure this would be useful to others also.

This also begs the question of why there are two options for multiple target operation, one for 2,3 or 4 targets and another for more than four targets? I found one source that said originally the ShotMarker design was for individual use only and when Joe and Bob tried to run their ShotMarkers simultaneously there were problems so Adam added the four channel feature. Then when the customers wanted to run matches with more than four firing points Adam added the multiple target feature. If so, we are seeing product improvement that is responding to the customer needs.