SHOT show 2020

[Turbulent Turtle]

Hi ILya.

"Immersive view" is exactly why I referred to the WA eyepiece as the IMAX of scopes. When I first saw that item at SHOT2019 on the prototype 5-42X56, I asked Deon right there and then if they had plans to have that eyepiece on other scopes, like the high mag March-X scopes. I did not get a definitive answer. I asked again last month, and again, no definitive answer. I suspect using that eyepiece is more than just a simple retrofit; it perhaps call for a major or even total redesign of the scope, I just don't know.

During the many discussions about that eyepiece and other things, we got to talking about how this WA eyepiece can actually allow someone to be sloppy in the setup behind the rifle, which in turn would impact the high level of accuracy required in some disciplines such as F-class and yeah, even benchrest. The WA eyepiece is great for rapid sight acquisition and fast shooting from strange positions that characterize PRS, but the regular eyepiece forces the shooter to be much more consistent behind the rifle, which is a critical part of ultimate accuracy, which is needed for the tiny targets at long distances.

Then again, I notice that the Genesis scopes for ELR also have the WA eyepieces, albeit with different viewing angles.

 

[ILya]

Hi ILya.

"Immersive view" is exactly why I referred to the WA eyepiece as the IMAX of scopes. When I first saw that item at SHOT2019 on the prototype 5-42X56, I asked Deon right there and then if they had plans to have that eyepiece on other scopes, like the high mag March-X scopes. I did not get a definitive answer. I asked again last month, and again, no definitive answer. I suspect using that eyepiece is more than just a simple retrofit; it perhaps call for a major or even total redesign of the scope, I just don't know.

During the many discussions about that eyepiece and other things, we got to talking about how this WA eyepiece can actually allow someone to be sloppy in the setup behind the rifle, which in turn would impact the high level of accuracy required in some disciplines such as F-class and yeah, even benchrest. The WA eyepiece is great for rapid sight acquisition and fast shooting from strange positions that characterize PRS, but the regular eyepiece forces the shooter to be much more consistent behind the rifle, which is a critical part of ultimate accuracy, which is needed for the tiny targets at long distances.

Then again, I notice that the Genesis scopes for ELR also have the WA eyepieces, albeit with different viewing angles.

I suspect we will see the wide angle eyepiece proliferate through their product line as they update their designs. You can not just add a new eyepiece to an existing design without other modifications that can very from mild to extensive.

As far being sloppy behind the rifle with a WA eyepiece goes, who did you have this discussion with? That's kinda rubbish. Eye relief flexibility and field of view are not the same thing. There is nothing inherent in the wide angle eyepiece that would let you get away with being sloppy.

ILya

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I suspect we will see the wide angle eyepiece proliferate through their product line as they update their designs. You can not just add a new eyepiece to an existing design without other modifications that can very from mild to extensive.

As far being sloppy behind the rifle with a WA eyepiece goes, who did you have this discussion with? That's kinda rubbish. Eye relief flexibility and field of view are not the same thing. There is nothing inherent in the wide angle eyepiece that would let you get away with being sloppy.

ILya

Sorry for the delay in replying, life always seems to find a way to intrude.

As you know, one gets to talk to a lot of people at SHOT, I do not remember with whom I was discussing this aspect or even which day that was.

My thinking was that with the WA, the ring around the view in the scope is much diminished compared to a regular scope. For reference, I live at 40X. My March scopes are variables, 5-50X56 and 10-60X56, but they are always at 40X during a match. In order to get a proper view of the image, I have to be perfectly behind the rifle and at the proper distance. By moving up or down, I can get an image with a bigger black circle and narrower FOV than if I'm at the exact distance. I set myself to be at the same distance that gives me the exact same image with a properly sized black circle for every shot. This is what I was discussing with my interlocutor. We talked about how some people actually try to get a smaller image and a larger black circle to aim at.

The gist was that repeatable distance behind the rifle was a critical component of marksmanship for accuracy on target at 1000 yards and that one may rely on the size of the black circle as reference. The question was about how this would be influenced by a wide angle eyepiece which seemed to lessen this black circle.

I was not able to compare the view at 40X in the hall at SHOT show and so I have no idea if this is even "a thing". I was not able to lie down on the floor with the scope and try to focus on an object 1000 yards away, people were always getting in the way or would have walked all over me. I look forward to trying it out at some point.

 

[ILya]

Sorry for the delay in replying, life always seems to find a way to intrude.

As you know, one gets to talk to a lot of people at SHOT, I do not remember with whom I was discussing this aspect or even which day that was.

My thinking was that with the WA, the ring around the view in the scope is much diminished compared to a regular scope. For reference, I live at 40X. My March scopes are variables, 5-50X56 and 10-60X56, but they are always at 40X during a match. In order to get a proper view of the image, I have to be perfectly behind the rifle and at the proper distance. By moving up or down, I can get an image with a bigger black circle and narrower FOV than if I'm at the exact distance. I set myself to be at the same distance that gives me the exact same image with a properly sized black circle for every shot. This is what I was discussing with my interlocutor. We talked about how some people actually try to get a smaller image and a larger black circle to aim at.

The gist was that repeatable distance behind the rifle was a critical component of marksmanship for accuracy on target at 1000 yards and that one may rely on the size of the black circle as reference. The question was about how this would be influenced by a wide angle eyepiece which seemed to lessen this black circle.

I was not able to compare the view at 40X in the hall at SHOT show and so I have no idea if this is even "a thing". I was not able to lie down on the floor with the scope and try to focus on an object 1000 yards away, people were always getting in the way or would have walked all over me. I look forward to trying it out at some point.

Denys, do not take it the wrong way, but your theory on what a wide angle eyepiece does and how it works is completely wrong.

The ring around the image has nothing whatsoever to do with the FOV. If you move your head from an optimal spot, you will get an increased black ring around the image. If your eye is where it is supposed to be, the black ring around the image is minimized.

With a wider FOV eyepiece, all other things being equal, you will see better through the scope. Not just more because the FOV is wider, but you will see better in the center because whatever is coming through the scope subtends a larger fraction of the natural FOV of your eye, so all the stuff coming into your eye from around the scope is less distracting.

To be clear, I have a pre-production 5-42x56 in my hands right now.

ILya
www.darklordofoptics.com

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Hello, ILya. Thank you for setting me straight. This is not the first time I've been wrong and it won't be the last. I'm hoping to get a WA eyepiece March scope in a while to get some quality time with it, instead of just at the show.

 

[anon]

Denys, was the reason for capped turrets on the 1.5-15 explained? If it is being presented as a scope for the mid-range tactical class I would expect turrets like the service rifle scope. Great to see March looking at that application.