Shot shell to metallic vice versa

[Wolfdog91]

So just curious. Has anyone gone from loading shor shells ( guess non metallic would be the proper term but a you all I see in that relm of things is shot shell reloading sooo) to metallic or metallic to shotshell ? If so how bad was the learning curve? Did you have to relearn some stuff or ?

Just curious because I got two mec's that where given to me and considering getting more into shot gunning ( .410 and .20ga) mainly wanna see what I can do as fall as small bore for short range predator stuff. But I've only ever loaded metallic rifle ,both jacketed and cast.

 

[JSH]

They are about as similar as daylight and dark.

 

[Krogen]

I've done both. Running the equipment is different. So is using loading data. Best to go strictly by the book when loading shotshells. Use the exact hull, primer, powder charge, wad and shot weight specified. With metallic, you can take some artistic latitude. Not so with shotshells. Of course some folks will say they do fiddle with shotshell load data, but it's generally not advised.

Shotshell from Metallic isn't hard, just take the time to learn.

 

[ben-o]

The basic process of loading shotgun shells isn't difficult, but tuning the press to work correctly requires some mechanical aptitude and problem solving skills.

Choosing components is a little more complex. There are a countless combinations of hull , wad, primer, powder, and shot weight (and material). Generally, you should follow published data exactly, and not make substitutions. You absolutely can’t “work up” a shotgun load the way you can with rifle loads.

 

[Andy Work]

You'll be fine if you follow established data. Ballistic Products has plenty of tested recipes and components.

 

[wedgy]

Start with the 20 gauge first then when you get it mastered try the .410 as they are much more finicky. I think shot shells are way easier to load than metallic but a progressive press has a lot of things going on at the same time that need to be monitored.

 

[qec]

I load both. Metallic for about 35 years and shotgun just a couple of months. I'm using a MEC single stage for 12 (about 4 - 5 boxes an hour) and Lee Load All for 20 (3 boxes an hour). I'm using all range hulls. Couple of observations:
- Unlike range brass where mixing can be fine, shotgun hulls all have different dimension and may require different combinations of hulls, wads and powder charges. It is far more complicated then it should be.
- Some hulls reload better then others. Its best to sort them into brand/version that work together will the same press settings and wads. For example Remington Gun Club and Winchester AA 20 gauge hulls both work with the Load Master but other Winchester hulls don't.
- Remember all loads are compressed so powder bulk can affect things. It can mess with stack height. I don't load any rifle or pistol calibers that are compressed
- Gather as many PUBLISHED reloading manuals are you can find. There are so many combinations of components and availability can be iffy at any given time.
- Unless you are shooting a TON buy a single stage MEC. I really like the Sizemaster. I can load 2 - 3 times more shells an hour with it then I shoot. That is a good ratio for me.
- Finally, if you are going to shoot a lot find a gun club that specializes in shotgun sports. They often do bulk reloading component buys. Can be a big money saver

 

[TrapperBR549]

What kind of Mec loaders?
If you are wanting to load for predators you should look at TSS. Balllistic Producst has a bunch of stuff for that.
When I started loading on an older Mec 9000 that had sat for awhile I got pretty frustrated pretty quickly. I found a bunch of information on Shotgunworld.com that helped me tremendously. I haven't been there in quite awhile but I would encourage you to take a look.

 

[qec]

I'm using the Sizemaster. It has 2 advantages over the 600JR. The included primer feeder ($130 addition to the 600jr) and the collet based resizer on station 1. In my mind those additions make the price different worth it. $380 vs $255. If you add a primer feeder to the 600JR you are even

 

[KMart]

In my limited experience in loading the .410, they are a PITA to get a decent crimp. You have to experiment with wads and powders to get everything to the correct volume in the case for crimping. As I best remember, the crimp is a 6 crimp and a 6 crimp in most gauges don't fold well.
I have loaded hundreds of thousands of 12 gauge trap loads successfully.

 

[jepp2]

If so how bad was the learning curve? Did you have to relearn some stuff or ?

I consider shotshell simpler, especially on a single stage press like the Mec. I started loading shotshells when I was 14 without issues. One of my shotshell presses is the Pacific 366 (acquired by Hornady later). If you use the FL sizer, you have 8 operations occurring with each pull of the handle, 3 of which require you to check that they completed correctly. Requires full attention with no distractions. On the Mec's the only issue I ever had was rotating the top bar over without the plug in the shot bottle. Still find shot rolling around the basement floor.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I 've used my 12 ga Lee load all since the mid 70's. Really very simple. Crimps don't always look perfect, but critters have never complained. My pointers don't know the difference between factory and reloads when retrieving birds. I do hand fill large shot(buck) and duplex loads by hand. I have even have tried slugs. I like the gray AA hulls for hunting loads.

 

[FNSafari]

IMO, based on past experience loading 2.5" skeet .410 loads, its just a royal PITA .

12, 20, 28 no problem

 

[Rickhem]

I've been loading since the 1970s which was on my dad's Ponsness Warren 375. That press is on my loading bench today. It's a single stage press, ours is 12 gauge and have only ever used 700x for powder. As was stated before, hulls are different, and require different wads to match correctly. I also feel shotshell loading is much simpler than metallic, and you're mostly just cranking them out to save money, but it does allow some customization. My advice is to pick a load that cycles anything you'll shoot it out of, and settle on that. You can change shot size since it's a weight charge and the size is irrelevant. But find hulls and wads that match, and just use those.
I briefly had a Texan loader in .410, and tried to load with that for a very short period of time. The .410 uses different powder, I used WW296, and it would get past the charge bar (just like the MEC) and made a mess on my bench. The ammo worked well enough, I used it for skeet, but it was such an aggravation cleaning up afterwards, and it always gave me the creeps having powder spilling all over, and that fine ball powder gets everywhere. I'll second that thought that .410 is a PITA.

 

[perazziguy]

The great thing about shot shells, you don't have to weigh the shot and the powder to the nth degree. Verify bushing drops with known recent published data, use the correct bar or bushing for the shot. Load em up and go to town.

 

[jk80]

I started over 50 years ago with a Lee wack a mole loading kit and an old scale a neighbor gave me for watching his pointers when he went on vacation. If a 12 year old kid could do it with a hammer and that kit it's not that hard. I've got a hydraulic mec now and it's great not to pull on a handle. That said, I shoot between 15 to 20 thousand shells a year competitively. I haven't loaded a shell for quite a while. Your savings isn't that great per box over new. By the time I sell the hulls my time is more valuable than the savings. As far as safety, flow the manuals data and you'll be fine. I'll guarantee you can get in over pressure problems quicker with centerfire than a shotgun shell. With shot around 50 bucks a bag, primers 60 or 70 bucks and powder just taking another jump it may not be worth it to you. I'd check component price and availability before taking the plunge. Hope this helps. If there's anything I can do to help just pm me.

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

I load both. Metallic for about 35 years and shotgun just a couple of months. I'm using a MEC single stage for 12 (about 4 - 5 boxes an hour) and Lee Load All for 20 (3 boxes an hour). I'm using all range hulls. Couple of observations:
- Unlike range brass where mixing can be fine, shotgun hulls all have different dimension and may require different combinations of hulls, wads and powder charges. It is far more complicated then it should be.
- Some hulls reload better then others. Its best to sort them into brand/version that work together will the same press settings and wads. For example Remington Gun Club and Winchester AA 20 gauge hulls both work with the Load Master but other Winchester hulls don't.
- Remember all loads are compressed so powder bulk can affect things. It can mess with stack height. I don't load any rifle or pistol calibers that are compressed
- Gather as many PUBLISHED reloading manuals are you can find. There are so many combinations of components and availability can be iffy at any given time.
- Unless you are shooting a TON buy a single stage MEC. I really like the Sizemaster. I can load 2 - 3 times more shells an hour with it then I shoot. That is a good ratio for me.
- Finally, if you are going to shoot a lot find a gun club that specializes in shotgun sports. They often do bulk reloading component buys. Can be a big money saver

Sizemaster ....I use the free throw away hulls, sort by brand type , using home made shot ie shotmaker with ww lead.

 

[ebb]

Could you explain the shotmaker equipment and process? I've never heard of it before you mentioned it. Sounds interesting

 

[ronsatspokane]

Started metallic loading at 15 and shotshell reloading at 17. Bought a Ponsness Warren 375 at 18. Used it quite a bit then I stopped shooting for over 25 years. Now back to it. I live about a half an hour from Ponsness Warren over in Rathdrum ID. Had them convert the 375 from 12 gauge to 28 gauge which I use for sporting clays and I've been loading a lot of rounds on it. Had someone give me two 5 gallon buckets and two large boxes of once fired AAHS hulls so I'll be loading and shooting them for a while.

I also do precision loading for F Class in a number of calibers.

The primary difference between shotshell and metallic reloading is that with shotshells you need to buy the wad that matches the hull you are loading. That wad determines the shot load and the hull, wad and shot load determine the powder selection and load range. Shotshell recipes seem to be very precise in terms of component selection and people don't seem to stray from those published recipes very much. Probably because shotgun barrels can't handle the pressure that rifle or pistol barrels can. Learning curve is easy with shotshells and those mecs work well. Just watch a couple videos and find your shell, wad and powder by looking at the recommended loads which are available from a variety of sources. Get yourself charge bars for those mecs instead of buy a bunch of different sized cylinders for shot drop and powder drop. Process is: size, prime, dump powder, push in wad, fill wad cup with shot, pre-crimp, crimp. Easy peasy.

 

[snert]

I loaded for years, 12, 20 and 410, all on Mec 600 (progressive model, not SS). I used pick up hulls from local trap range and used them till they fell apart. I shot skeet a little, pigeons a lot, and small game as much as posssible. I still have 7-800 pigeon loads in every form of Federal and winchester AA case I could find, including a case of paper (for the smell)
As stated above, hull and application determines the wad. After that, follow the books on powder charge and primer (though for me I found little variations in performance based on primer. I always ended up with 1200 ish feet [per second] and whatever size shot I had and would work. Once you get the press adjusted to make a good crimp on the respective hull/wad combo, stick with it and load every one of those hulls. Adjusting was the PIA and time consumer.
As noted, don't tip the bottles over while they have stuff in them without a firmly planted plug!

410 was a whole nuther bugger. I used a mec and a redding! Both were a pain. The hulls tend to fry the crimp in one firing...very deceptive cause they look ao, but are brittle. Hard hard hard to get it to crimp right. I found it wrked best with 2 1/2 inchers (less flex in the hull) but I still found myself dropping a dot of wax, and later, hot glue onto the shitty crimp to keep the bb's in the hull! I used these for rabbit hunting mostly.
I enjoy loading so the cost of 410 vs factory might cause me to load those.