Short range target load

[rmkey]

I have a factory 308 Savage that shoots in the 0.4 moa range after load development. I also have a Savage Lrp in 260 but I have not been able to consistently match the 308.
I am shooting at 100 yards and group size is my ONLY concern.
Disregarding the variables in individual rifles, is the 260 cartridge any less accurate than its parent??
I have used Bergers and SMKs of various weights-in both guns. I am currently experimenting witH 107 SMKs and H4350, RL15, H4895, and varget. Again 100 yard paper punching. Of course it could be the barrel and I have thought of replacing it as that cured my 22-250.
I have also thought of switching calibers altogether. With all I have invested in 260 I hesitate until all possibilities are exhausted. Any suggestions?
Thanks for reply.

 

[dstoenner]

My 107 smk load for my 260 was 45 h4350. It would do .5 moa which was fine for practice on an fclass reduced target for 100 yards.

david

 

[rmkey]

Thanks much! I guess powders that are more case filling might be best.

 

[jimbo88mm]

The 260 has rep with some that its harder to tune than the other mid power 6.5s. I've had some trouble finding a really good load with a cheap after market barrel. I know a couple of people who have also had trouble getting a 260 to shoot with after market barrels. That said, my current mcgowen 260 barrel shoots very well. So is the 260 hard to tune or an inaccurate round? I can't really say for sure.

Since you are using this for 100 yards and are wanting precision over all else i recommend looking at bullets with a tangent ogive. The 120gr SMK is a very easy bullet to tune. Even nosler ballistic tips shoot very well. Don't be afraid of trying flat base bullets either. Don't chase speed.. at 100 yards you don't need it. You may find the most consistent groups come from near starter loads.

I think varget is okay for the light ~100gr bullets but if you go with 123gr or higher go with H4350, RL16 or IMR4451.

If you decide to change the caliber but want to stay with a 6.5... I've heard great things about the 6.5x47L.

 

[rmkey]

The 260 has rep with some that its harder to tune than the other mid power 6.5s. I've had some trouble finding a really good load with a cheap after market barrel. I know a couple of people who have also had trouble getting a 260 to shoot with after market barrels. That said, my current mcgowen 260 barrel shoots very well. So is the 260 hard to tune or an inaccurate round? I can't really say for sure.

Since you are using this for 100 yards and are wanting precision over all else i recommend looking at bullets with a tangent ogive. The 120gr SMK is a very easy bullet to tune. Even nosler ballistic tips shoot very well. Don't be afraid of trying flat base bullets either. Don't chase speed.. at 100 yards you don't need it. You may find the most consistent groups come from near starter loads.

I think varget is okay for the light ~100gr bullets but if you go with 123gr or higher go with H4350, RL16 or IMR4451.

If you decide to change the caliber but want to stay with a 6.5... I've heard great things about the 6.5x47L.

Thanks very much. I use Berger hybrids or SMKs. Right now I using 107 smk. I don’t want to buy a pre-fit for 260 if indeed it doesn’t shoot as well as a 308.
I don’t see any difference in 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor. That leaves only the 6.5x47 Lapua but it requires the firing pin to be bushed. No clue about that. The 6 br has some quirky issues as well plus I have a lot of 6.5 bullets. Kinda really don’t know what to plan for. But thanks for the reply. It pretty much confirms my suspicions.

 

[rmkey]

Jimbo88mm

when you say cheap aftermarket barrels do you mean Shilen or Criterion?

 

[jimbo88mm]

Jimbo88mm

when you say cheap aftermarket barrels do you mean Shilen or Criterion?

No. I'm, talking ~$200 barrels. The one I had that didn't shoot great was a shaw that I had picked up on a group buy, set me back $160. I took a chance because I have an AR-15 with a shaw that shoots extremely well, we're talking 1/2 minute 10shot 100 yard groups all day long out of that rifle. That Ar-15 I think turned out to be a fluke.

The mcgowen barrel I have on my 260 currently I would is in the same category as the Shilen and Criterion, both cost and performance wise. I consider shaw barrels maybe a half step up from factory savage barrels. I've had a couple of savage barrels that shoot extremely well and a few that just do okay (1-1.5 moa).

I use my 260 to shoot fairly long range. It does great out to 1000 yards. I've shot out to a mile with it but really anything beyond 1200 is kind of like pissing in the wind. My load is 147gr elds over imr 4451 with a velocity of 2800fps (30 inch barrel). This is pretty typical of 100 yard groups. That large one was 8-10 shots, spread over a cease fire:

 

[rmkey]

No. I'm, talking ~$200 barrels. The one I had that didn't shoot great was a shaw that I had picked up on a group buy, set me back $160. I took a chance because I have an AR-15 with a shaw that shoots extremely well, we're talking 1/2 minute 10shot 100 yard groups all day long out of that rifle. That Ar-15 I think turned out to be a fluke.

The mcgowen barrel I have on my 260 currently I would is in the same category as the Shilen and Criterion, both cost and performance wise. I consider shaw barrels maybe a half step up from factory savage barrels. I've had a couple of savage barrels that shoot extremely well and a few that just do okay (1-1.5 moa).

I use my 260 to shoot fairly long range. It does great out to 1000 yards. I've shot out to a mile with it but really anything beyond 1200 is kind of like pissing in the wind. My load is 147gr elds over imr 4451 with a velocity of 2800fps (30 inch barrel). This is pretty typical of 100 yard groups. That large one was 8-10 shots, spread over a cease fire:

 

[rmkey]

Wow. We’re on the same page. That’s great shooting! I’d take that any day. I’m shooting factory savage. I think a shilen with a chamber matched to my exact cartridge will get me there. I can easily turn the necks a bit for a tight fit. I love my 308 and I view the 260 as a necked down 308.
I also view Lapua as the least expensive brass as it way out lasts other brands. Thanks very much for your reply.
PS I had the privilege of talking to a competition shooter who just won a 1000 yard match maintains 0.45 moa to target and he did it with a 260. Of course he has his rifles totally custom built but it kind of says there is nothing wrong with the 260 cartridge.

 

[rmkey]

One member @BCz has both the 260 and the 6.5 Creedmoor
you should ask him for a couple tuning tips.
I’m not aware of quirks with a 6 Br that you mentioned but that’s just me.
Good luck
J

I was just referring to having to turn down the firing pin and getting it bushed for 6 br

 

[Laurie]

Both cartridges are capable of superb precision. Having shot both extensively, I'd agree the 260 may take a bit more work to find a really good combination than the 308 - the latter really is a well 'balanced' easy to tune number.

With factory rifles the variations in barrel quality inject a random variable that may well have a greater effect than the inherent cartridge design. Two Savage 12 single-shots I had some years back bought within 12 months of each other were at opposite ends of this spectrum - a 204 Ruger LRPV got me several wins in 100 yard BR factory rifle class whilst a contemporary 12 F-Class in 6.5-284 simply wouldn't shoot well or even provide the MVs other good performing examples got from the same loads. It could also be that 6.5s in general are more finicky over barrel quality and also bullet-to-barrel dimensional compatibility than equivalent 30s.

The final factor is Savage out of the box barrels having across the bore tool-marks from the boring stage that under borescope magnification makes them look like ploughed fields. (I saw a pic just yesterday of a Savage barrel interior taken with one of the new high-mag Teslong scopes that looked horrendous, but the rifle apparently shoots OK.) What it does mean is that a Savage can have a pretty long run-in period needing sometimes as many as 250-300 rounds. This may or may not apply to your situation. This was a common forum topic some years back when Savage 'Precision Series' models were hot stuff, but is rarely mentioned these days. There was an alleged 'known to a reliable friend guy or guys' who bought low round-count wouldn't shoot Savages off disgruntled owners cheap, ran them in fully and sold them on as proven good shooters making a tidy profit. Almost certainly an urban myth although I'm sure it did happen like this occasionally!

 

[rmkey]

I think you are exactly right. I have a cheap borescope and wonder how they shoot at all based on all the tool marks. Lot of chattering going on. I have around 500 rounds through the 260 and I ran David Tubbs final finish in # 3,4 and 5. Cleaned it up a bit and improved accuracy a bit but there is still no comparison with a shilen I have on another gun. I will shoot it a little more then replace the barrel.
Thanks for your reply!

 

[Zero333]

I would get the Tubb's Final Finish 6.5mm kit.

Some of the factory barrels are fairly rough and scrape the jackets badly making them not as balanced as they where before being fired.
If Tubb's Final Finish doesn't help, then you need a new barrel. Not all Savage Factory barrels are equal.

http://www.davidtubb.com/final-finish-bullet-kits/finalfinish-bulletkit-264

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006409224

 

[rmkey]

I would get the Tubb's Final Finish 6.5mm kit.

Some of the factory barrels are fairly rough and scrape the jackets badly making them not as balanced as they where before being fired.
If Tubb's Final Finish doesn't help, then you need a new barrel. Not all Savage Factory barrels are equal.

http://www.davidtubb.com/final-finish-bullet-kits/finalfinish-bulletkit-264

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006409224

A few posts above I stated I did use FF but since the rifle was sub moa I only used abrasives 3-5 per directions. It did clean up some of the tooling marks and the rifle did group better. My goal is a consistent, repeatable 0.4 - 0.5 every group not average of all groups. If I average all groups the moa is 0.45.
I am going to play with neck tension. I am using 0.001 currently so I will load to 0.002 and 0.003. After that I will replace factory barrel with a shilen match select as the gun has a target action. Thanks

 

[Fast14riot]

I've found the 260 a bit easier to tune with 120gr+ bullets. My go-to fire forming load for my 260AI is 44gr H4831 with any 130-140gr bullet. I bought some 130gr Sierra pulls that will shoot 10 shots into 3/4" at 100 yards consistently. I've shot this load with Peterson, Lapua and Win brass, always does well enough. I could tune it a bit if I wanted, but does fine for 100 yards.

 

[Steve Ladino]

I have a factory 308 Savage that shoots in the 0.4 moa range after load development. I also have a Savage Lrp in 260 but I have not been able to consistently match the 308.
I am shooting at 100 yards and group size is my ONLY concern.
Disregarding the variables in individual rifles, is the 260 cartridge any less accurate than its parent??
I have used Bergers and SMKs of various weights-in both guns. I am currently experimenting witH 107 SMKs and H4350, RL15, H4895, and varget. Again 100 yard paper punching. Of course it could be the barrel and I have thought of replacing it as that cured my 22-250.
I have also thought of switching calibers altogether. With all I have invested in 260 I hesitate until all possibilities are exhausted. Any suggestions?
Thanks for reply.

I have a 6.5 Grendel and it wouldn't shoot the small bullets (100 grn. ) With the 107's it liked a Max. load of H335..in my 8 twist. Ruger American.
I tried several other powders Tac, AR comp Vrgt. nun of which worked well with the 107.

 

[Dud]

There is a big difference between .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

You can tell because one has been uncommon for a long time and the other has come on the scene and ignited a new market of people shooting 1,000 yards for the first time.

6.5x47 is also a good one but while it might have provided a spark that led to the creation of 6.5 Creedmoor, it hasn't taken off in the same way.

6.5 Creedmoor has cheap and common components that can shoot 1,000 yards very well, with ballistics pretty much as good as any short action cartridge. Since lots of people are using it, you get more reloading data to analyze.

It's really hard to say anything negative about 6.5 Creedmoor. You don't have to worry about it being a bad choice because if you want Lapua brass you can get Lapua brass, same with Alpha brass and Peterson. On the lower end, Federal, Hornady, Starline, etc. Powder, primers and bullets are the same. I don't know of any reloading dies or tools that are made for .260 or 6.5x47 that aren't made for 6.5 Creedmoor. You can also get lots of great ammo off the shelf. I just bought some Berger brand 6.5 Creedmoor ammo with small primer Lapua brass and 140 grainy Berger Hybrid bullets for not much more than the price of empty Lapua brass...

 

[rmkey]

There is a big difference between .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

You can tell because one has been uncommon for a long time and the other has come on the scene and ignited a new market of people shooting 1,000 yards for the first time.

6.5x47 is also a good one but while it might have provided a spark that led to the creation of 6.5 Creedmoor, it hasn't taken off in the same way.

6.5 Creedmoor has cheap and common components that can shoot 1,000 yards very well, with ballistics pretty much as good as any short action cartridge. Since lots of people are using it, you get more reloading data to analyze.

It's really hard to say anything negative about 6.5 Creedmoor. You don't have to worry about it being a bad choice because if you want Lapua brass you can get Lapua brass, same with Alpha brass and Peterson. On the lower end, Federal, Hornady, Starline, etc. Powder, primers and bullets are the same. I don't know of any reloading dies or tools that are made for .260 or 6.5x47 that aren't made for 6.5 Creedmoor. You can also get lots of great ammo off the shelf. I just bought some Berger brand 6.5 Creedmoor ammo with small primer Lapua brass and 140 grainy Berger Hybrid bullets for not much more than the price of empty Lapua brass...

You bring up an interesting point. Yes the Creedmoor is vastly the more popular cartridge in the 6.5 cal. My only reason for barrel replacement with 260 is that what I have read suggests there are no significant differences in accuracy and the 260 is based on the 308 case. Maybe I need to do some more research.
Thanks for your reply.