Shooting Sighters at Benchrest Match

[rckendall]

I recently asked about Windroses for rimfire and there was a great deal of healthy response and I appreciated all of it. I shot my first match a few days ago and did fairly well (didn't embarrass myself) and am now looking for ways to improve my game. I basically shot about as quickly as I could because I felt like I was up to the challenge. Not true, really!

So to help with learning to read the wind I have been thinking about the sighters I shoot. I have been shooting where I think I should, and adjusting until I get to center. I am starting to think that I should shoot dead center and let the wind tell me what my hold should be. It would only take one shot?

Coupled with that thinking, I could see shooting different sighting targets for different conditions. It seems simple enough sitting at home on the couch, but what do I know? There's probably many different ways to do it and I would like to hear about them all! I know that I need to pay more attention to my flag but I also need to learn to shoot the different conditions as they come up.

Thanks,
Richard

 

[tlbgto]

I'm sure you will get many answers to this, as there are many different options. I shoot dead center to see where shot lands. Then on same target I shoot my estimated correction to verify. I shoot as many spotter's as necessary. I only shoot when the wind matches my spotters. I normally on do a couple spotter's

 

[Gizmo60]

You have to shoot dead centre to determine the wind affect.

Waiting for a lull in the wind before shooting is fine but in comps you have a time limit, 20 mins over here for one card. If the wind is ever-changing, you’ll not be able to shoot the 25 targets within the allocated timeframe.

Learn the wind and practice shooting various wind conditions, preferably the easiest ones to learn/shoot in.

An experienced club member told me that when practicing I should –

shoot the comp card, use wind at least two flags, use a timer (basic digital kitchen timer - https://www.amazon.com/HOME-MOST-Large-Display-Kitchen/dp/B07GZNJ73W?th=1).

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Shoot plenty of sighters. Sighters don't lie. If you're not dead certain that the condition is the same..shoot a sighter and see. Misses and missed wind calls are best when they happen on the sighter portion of the target.

 

[doclu60]

I don't remember if was here, or another board I got involved in your discussion, but I do remember your questions. In this new thread, you mention 'flag' as in not plural. I also remember those that posted on your last query explicitly told you one flag was not enough, including me. So, this begs the question of are you looking for help and not taking sound advise, or do you think you know more about shooting the wind in a RFBR match than others that have more experience in doing so......ones who told you last time you broached this subject that one flag was not enough? This is a perfect example of why really good RFBR shooters hardly ever post on a forum. Give advise, and it gets ignored.

Get more flags, at least 4. Shoot sighters for at least several minutes after your barrel comes back in from cleaning, and then go for score after that. If the record shot does not go where you thought it would, go back to sighters. Shoot sighters for every change in your rest position as far as lines, or the good lord forbid, columns, when you navigate the card. Same advise as last time you opened a thread.

We covered this ground before, now a new thread from you. Try taking the original advise instead of asking the same question again when you ignored the original advise of shooting over just one flag.

JMO.........Scott

BTW: Last time we covered your questions, some very good shooters I personally know gave excellent advise on your questions. The best advise was a complete compliment of flags.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I musta missed the thread Scott is referring to but he's right about flags. You simply can't know why a shot comes out of a group(or in) without several good flags to at least tell you when NOT to shoot. It's very common to have 4 or 5 flags all going different directions at the same time and there's virtually no such thing as "dead calm". Maybe if it's foggy out but a true dead calm is rare and doesn't tell you everything anyway.
Enjoy shooting, however you do it but just know that flags are even more important that the best rifle, ammo and shooter. The best of everything is only as good as you are at knowing when to shoot...or not to. I have to admit that I get frustrated at times, when someone tells me they tested in "calm" conditions without flags. There's just no way to know if it's calm or not without flags. A person doesn't have to spend a lot of money on flags. Even a few coat hangers and surveyor tape will tell you a lot, just not nearly as much as a good set of flags can. No matter what you use, it takes time to learn them and there are NO shortcuts.
Everything I've said here is in earnest and is not meant to be rude or condescending at all. But it relates to a very common mistake that new shooters make. That being that they don't need flags and that the wind has little value. Trust me...it matters more than anything else unless you are happy with .5-1 moa stuff. Yes, some days and some groups can be small without flags, but not consistently and nothing else matters...and wallet groups mean zero..nothing. I haven't carried one since high school. When you learn what matters, you realize that you can't put that many groups in your wallet.
All the best!--Mike

 

[Todd Earhart]

Use the time that's give you. Get yourself a timer and learn when you have to give up on sighters and have to go to finish the card. I will almost always shoot as many sighters as score shots. Most that have been shooting score for a while can single feed and shoot 25 score bulls in 3 minutes. Somewhere around the 18 minute mark you have to give up on sighters and finish the card. Its your time to use.
I have shot some good cards in 5 minutes but that's not the usual.
Gunsandgunsmithing sells good flags. PM him and talk to him when your ready for more flags.
Todd

 

[JMayo]

The dot has middle, left, right. Width of a crosshair sometimes is too much.
Trust turning the knob ever so slightly even if you don't see the crosshairs move, IT MOVED !

 

[linekin]

I mainly shoot sighters where I think I should hold.
Piece of advise: when the wind is 20+ mph r to l shoot the sighters on the left side of the target or vice versa.....

 

[TrxR]

I shot a match yesterday and my last sighter box was a 5 shot group that was less than 1/2" outside to outside of the hole. But down on the target I had one go high and one low into the 9 ring.
I couldn't figure out what happened. The only thing I can figure is a head or tail wind I didn't see. The other thing I considered was I had to shoot over a berm made of rail road ties and sand that was about 3 feet high. Would that cause any weird wind conditions? It was only about 4 feet in front of the target.

 

[doclu60]

I shot a match yesterday and my last sighter box was a 5 shot group that was less than 1/2" outside to outside of the hole. But down on the target I had one go high and one low into the 9 ring.
I couldn't figure out what happened. The only thing I can figure is a head or tail wind I didn't see. The other thing I considered was I had to shoot over a berm made of rail road ties and sand that was about 3 feet high. Would that cause any weird wind conditions? It was only about 4 feet in front of the target.

Absolutely that berm can/will do strange things to POI. That is one reason lots of guys told the OP in another thread to ditch the wind rose and shoot sighters. One thing you can do when a topographical feature, such as that berm, causes push is to get an up/downer flag and place it as close to the berm as possible. When the flag points up, don't shoot. When the flag points down, don't shoot. I normally have 2 of this type of flag in my spread. The first one from the bench to show any curl coming off the awning, and the other where a feature on the range may cause up or down draft issues.

Scott

 

[doclu60]

I mainly shoot sighters where I think I should hold.
Piece of advise: when the wind is 20+ mph r to l shoot the sighters on the left side of the target or vice versa.....

Sage advise on the strong wind sighter use! Especially with the new IR50 card. Less space to play with before your sighter gives you a zero.

Scott

 

[TrxR]

Absolutely that berm can/will do strange things to POI. That is one reason lots of guys told the OP in another thread to ditch the wind rose and shoot sighters. One thing you can do when a topographical feature, such as that berm, causes push is to get an up/downer flag and place it as close to the berm as possible. When the flag points up, don't shoot. When the flag points down, don't shoot. I normally have 2 of this type of flag in my spread. The first one from the bench to show any curl coming off the awning, and the other where a feature on the range may cause up or down draft issues.

Scott

I never thought of the wind coming down of the roof either.

The weird thing about this range as far as the berm is concerned is that only one bench shoots over it.

 

[linekin]

While shooting for score & a shot goes errant I'll quickly move to a sighter to confirm its a condition I've missed. Basically to confirm it was me that missed a condition & not something in my equipment or that I've had bad bench manners. Most of the time its oh so obvious I've missed a condition.
Its been said sighters don't lie & thats true. But flags do. Pay attention to your tails

 

[TrxR]

While shooting for score & a shot goes errant I'll quickly move to a sighter to confirm its a condition I've missed. Basically to confirm it was me that missed a condition & not something in my equipment or that I've had bad bench manners. Most of the time its oh so obvious I've missed a condition.
Its been said sighters don't lie & thats true. But flags do. Pay attention to your tails

It drives you bonkers when you shoot a x then you get a 9 the another x. You just got to realize you missed a condition, shake it off and continue.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

While shooting for score & a shot goes errant I'll quickly move to a sighter to confirm its a condition I've missed. Basically to confirm it was me that missed a condition & not something in my equipment or that I've had bad bench manners. Most of the time its oh so obvious I've missed a condition.
Its been said sighters don't lie & thats true. But flags do. Pay attention to your tails

Gotta watch everything at your disposal. Trees, grass, tails, pinwheels, mirage and the flags on either side of you. Sometimes it's not bad but others, it can drive you crazy. There are times when shots seem to go against what the flags are saying. I try to use mirage when I can when this happens. I find that the two don't always agree and the fault is likely that there's just not a flag where it needs to be to show whatever is causing the mirage to run the other way.
Without getting into all the analytics, people often claim the first flag is the most critical. My response to that, the flag that matters most is the one that you didn't see switch or didn't have where it needed to be to show the change.
It's easy, right. Lol!

 

[Todd Earhart]

Mike brings up a good point. Mirage. Sometimes your not aiming at what you think your are. Mirage and water vapor can make things interesting. Trust your sighter shots and the environment around that's causing the shots to go where they are.
Todd