Shell holder and die stuff

[AlNyhus]

A couple days ago, Randy Robinett, Doc Peterson and myself were talking a new-to Benchrest shooter through setting up his full length bushing die for his 6PPC. Comparing how we did things, we talked about how the 'little stuff' gets taken for granted.....the assumption being that everyone checks the 'little stuff'.

One area is the bottom of the shell holder. Make sure the very bottom of the shell holder doesn't stack up tight on top of the ram. And Even though there is an industry standard 'height' for the top of shell holders (.125), I've seen variances up to .006 lately in one particular brand.

Sometimes, just the addition of an 'o' ring or flat rubber washer between the die lock ring and the top of the press can improve things dramatically. Likewise, substituting an 'o' ring for the shell holder retaining clip can be beneficial.

For what it's worth.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Jerry Wick]

A couple days ago, Randy Robinett, Doc Peterson and myself were talking a new-to Benchrest shooter through setting up his full length bushing die for his 6PPC. Comparing how we did things, we talked about how the 'little stuff' gets taken for granted.....the assumption being that everyone checks the 'little stuff'.

One area is the bottom of the shell holder. Make sure the very bottom of the shell holder doesn't stack up tight on top of the ram. And Even though there is an industry standard 'height' for the top of shell holders (.125), I've seen variances up to .006 lately in one particular brand.

Sometimes, just the addition of an 'o' ring or flat rubber washer between the die lock ring and the top of the press can improve things dramatically. Likewise, substituting an 'o' ring for the shell holder retaining clip can be beneficial.

For what it's worth.

Good shootin' -Al

Al, I just checked my press setup(Harrell's press). The very bottom of the shellholder does indeed contact the bottom of it's slot, while the underside of the upper portion(that holds the case) has a gap to the very top of the ram. I can slip a piece of paper in there when the ram/shellholder is topped out against a sizing die.

Now I'm not sure what to do - it's been this way for ~15 years!

Just thinking about machining practices, it seems to me the top of the ram would be more likely to be perpendicular to the ram axis than the bottom of the slot.

What to do...........

I'm tempted to remove some material from the bottom of the shellholder, but it seems to work well as is. Maybe it doesn't matter which surface is touching. Maybe they are both perpendicular. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your entire post. Hmmm.

 

[RegionRat]

Agree and will add that I have even had sets of the Redding Competition incremental shell holders with serious errors in some of the steps, however they were very good about replacing those with ones that were correct.

Food for thought, there is a balance between trying to keep track of shell holders that are not 0.125" versus just getting them all to 0.125".

I went with correcting them or replacing them till they were all identical within a mil so I don't have to wonder what shell holder works and which one doesn't. YMMV

 

[AlNyhus]

Al, I just checked my press setup(Harrell's press). The very bottom of the shellholder does indeed contact the bottom of it's slot, while the underside of the upper portion(that holds the case) has a gap to the very top of the ram. I can slip a piece of paper in there when the ram/shellholder is topped out against a sizing die.

Jerry, it really applies to presses that are a 'cam over' style. On presses like the Harrel's, there is normally hard contact.

The Devil is in the details...thank you for pointing this one out. -Al

 

[Jerry Wick]

Jerry, it really applies to presses that are a 'cam over' style. On presses like the Harrel's, there is normally hard contact.

The Devil is in the details...thank you for pointing this one out. -Al

Al, I'm not sure what you mean by "hard contact".

In my case, to bump my cases to headspace properly in my chamber, I have about an 8 thou gap between the shellholder and the bottom of my Harrell's 6PPC die when at the top of the stroke.

So...I'm still not sure how I want to proceed here. Maybe no action is the best action.

Thanks for the interesting thought excercise.

 

[PatMiles]

Okay gents you lost me. Why the concern what face of the shell holder contacts what face of the press ram?

 

[Jerry Wick]

Okay gents you lost me. Why the concern what face of the shell holder contacts what face of the press ram?

The never ending quest for the tiniest groups and aggs. Leaving no stone unturned.

Fact is, it probably doesn't matter.

 

[rayporter]

i have many shell holders several manufacturers because they are different heights. sometimes there is a use for one of a different height when wanting a case sized just so.
a couple are ground down a few thou too for the same reason.

i just checked and mine do not bottom out on my lyman or my hood.

 

[K22]

A couple days ago, Randy Robinett, Doc Peterson and myself were talking a new-to Benchrest shooter through setting up his full length bushing die for his 6PPC. Comparing how we did things, we talked about how the 'little stuff' gets taken for granted.....the assumption being that everyone checks the 'little stuff'.

One area is the bottom of the shell holder. Make sure the very bottom of the shell holder doesn't stack up tight on top of the ram. And Even though there is an industry standard 'height' for the top of shell holders (.125), I've seen variances up to .006 lately in one particular brand.

Sometimes, just the addition of an 'o' ring or flat rubber washer between the die lock ring and the top of the press can improve things dramatically. Likewise, substituting an 'o' ring for the shell holder retaining clip can be beneficial.

For what it's worth.

Good shootin' -Al

Not sure what you're saying here.

Just curious - are you talking about a "floating shell holder" to reduce run out? Never heard of that approach before - interesting if that's what you're referring to.

The "O" ring under the die lock ring is the most common method I've seen and read about relative creating a "floating" die to reduce run out.

 

[JFrank]

The never ending quest for the tiniest groups and aggs. Leaving no stone unturned.

Fact is, it probably doesn't matter.

I have one die that sets up with .008 gap another at .004 and still another with .022 of cam over that I faced a shell holder to reduce some of that.

 

[RegionRat]

A very good point has been raised, that shell holders of other sizes like the Competition incremental set from Redding, serve a purpose.

Earlier the point I made about correcting ones that are not at 0.125 was meant to say that a "standard" shell holder should be just that, and ones that are not standard, are intentional.

A stamp set or engraving tool can be a handy thing for keeping the non-standard ones easy to identify. YMMV

 

[hoz53]

A couple days ago, Randy Robinett, Doc Peterson and myself were talking a new-to Benchrest shooter through setting up his full length bushing die for his 6PPC. Comparing how we did things, we talked about how the 'little stuff' gets taken for granted.....the assumption being that everyone checks the 'little stuff'.

One area is the bottom of the shell holder. Make sure the very bottom of the shell holder doesn't stack up tight on top of the ram. And Even though there is an industry standard 'height' for the top of shell holders (.125), I've seen variances up to .006 lately in one particular brand.

Sometimes, just the addition of an 'o' ring or flat rubber washer between the die lock ring and the top of the press can improve things dramatically. Likewise, substituting an 'o' ring for the shell holder retaining clip can be beneficial.

For what it's worth.

Good shootin' -Al

Ive thought before about keeping the same shell holder with the die it was used with when I adjusted and setup the die. I found that at times that makes a difference —- If a person has 20 or 30 shell holders (me) this could drive you nuts. mabie i should color code them. I will check what you are talking about today on my shell holders. i tend to use shell holders on operations that this doesnt affect so much like bullet pulling- decapping- neck expanding -pistol loading - blaster loads ect and for sizing and seating of accuracy loads in rifles i use the coax which eliminates this problem. you gotta make sure and keep the plate the case sets on clean on the coax. they sometimes get gunked up and the case will set crooked.
Thanks

 

[Mike Casselton]

I keep a shell holder in the die box. It stays with those dies and doesn't get used with another set.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Some people freak out about float and wobble in a press.
Personally, I think it helps the brass center itself in the die.

One of the things I've always done is to leave the die lock ring loose until I determine shoulder setback.
Once done, I will take another piece of brass and run it into the die and then lock it. My purpose is to have the brass center the die before tightening.

I do check to make sure that tightening the lock ring doesn't raise the die body.
If it does, I'll make adjustments until it's correct.

I also center my seater dies the same way.

 

[rayporter]

a Dremel tool will notch the edge of the shell holders nicely.