Several action, caliber questions

[adrianrog]

I'll start off with a little background...
I live in a hilly part of Georgia. I currently have a 100yd range in my back yard that could easily be extended to 300. With quite a bit more effort, I might could get to 600 yards, but the swamp starts at 300 yards and goes to 500 yards, so it's not likely I'll do anything soon further than 300.

That being said, I took a Remington 700 VS in 223 to Wyoming last year to shoot prairie dogs and learned I needed more gun. the ranges were just unreal, the first man-made thing I could see past me was an old well 6.5 miles away by google maps. There were prairie dogs everywhere between me and that well and even beyond. I certainly killed a couple of prarie dogs at 500+ yards, but with those 55gr ballistic tips and the wind, it was a ton of Kentucky windage and even more luck.

My initial thought was something like a 6mm BR or 6mm Creedmoor with 105ish gr bullets. I'd love to find a used BR gun on this site, but I'm just not willing to spend $3K-$5K on a gun to shoot prairie dogs every 2-3 years. I've been thinking about it and I just can't get there in my mind. SO, with that in mind, here are my questions...

All else being equal, 6mm Creedmoor or 6mm BR or similar? I'd pick the BR if it was easier or more likely that I could make them shoot well. The 2000 round barrel life of the Creedmoor isn't a huge consideration given I'd shoot 500 rounds every 2-3 years.

For ~$1500, is a Savage 12 Benchrest anything special? How likely is it to shoot under say .4 MOA? How would it compare to say a Bergara B14? in the same price range? I think I'd like the Savage stock better for shooting off a bench, but figure the Bergara action would be slicker.

Is the Savage 12 target action that comes on the 12BR any better or worse than a Remington 700 action? Given the two, which would you pick? For that matter, is that target action any better than any other non-axis Savage action?

Is there something else I should be thinking of for a rifle that costs around $1500 to shoot prarie dogs. I'd love to pick up a used something, but they seem to rarely come up here in that price range.

Thanks in advance for your consideration,
Adrian

 

[DogBuster]

You'll get a dozen different answers

I've been using Salvage target actions since their release....RB RP

Screw the barrel of your choice on & shoot away...the triggers are great !

The older solid bottom s/shot actions are a decent platform too

I'd really suggest a 222 Rem in your case...overall cost will be some what less to feed it over a 6mm

If you're really a daring guy....221 Fireball..........even more daring ? 20 Fireball (Vartarg) or 20-222

I remember setting up dog guns...dead dig...action/custom barrel/stock/glass & mounts...$2K

Just to shoot p/dogs......crazy huh ?

pic...20-222 in the dog fields

 

[Uthink Uknow]

I’d say get a decent used BR rifle and take up short range BR. It’s just a matter of switching to a slower twist barrel and shoot more often. When the prairie dogs beckon switch back to the faster twist barrel.

 

[Lone Hunter]

If you go the REM 700 route or Savage get one that runs off of the .308 bolt face. .473 This will cover most of the cartridges you are looking at. Consider a Remage barrel or a new Savage barrel. Urbanrifleman on here sells them and NSS Northland Shooter Supply has them. That would be the cheaper route but by how much I don’t know. I am running 6XC ,6BR, .243 on Remage setups and am impressed by the accuracy of them. Before you buy do a lot of research and handle as many as you can to see what feels good to you. Never have shot PD’s before but 6mm reach out a pretty good ways and do a good job in the wind. Sure will tear up groundhogs too.

 

[butchlambert]

There is a BR rifle in the classified and I think it will shoot both PPC size bolt face and BR bolt face. You can rebarrel it to whatever cartridge that you want.

 

[DogBuster]

Savage....bolt face from 223 to 6BR is simple to change.....if you have the part

 

[DogBuster]

If you go the REM 700 route or Savage get one that runs off of the .308 bolt face. .473 This will cover most of the cartridges you are looking at. Consider a Remage barrel or a new Savage barrel. Urbanrifleman on here sells them and NSS Northland Shooter Supply has them. That would be the cheaper route but by how much I don’t know. I am running 6XC ,6BR, .243 on Remage setups and am impressed by the accuracy of them. Before you buy do a lot of research and handle as many as you can to see what feels good to you. Never have shot PD’s before but 6mm reach out a pretty good ways and do a good job in the wind. Sure will tear up groundhogs too.

Used a quick twist 6XC for a few years...p/dogs....

6XC....37 gr charge vs the 6BR 30-31 gr charge...BR always won out...both in an 18# set up

Then I leaned the 20 cal's.......another story......

 

[joshb]

“All else being equal, 6mm Creedmoor or 6mm BR or similar? I'd pick the BR if it was easier or more likely that I could make them shoot well. The 2000 round barrel life of the Creedmoor isn't a huge consideration given I'd shoot 500 rounds every 2-3 years.”

A 6 br is stupid easy to load for to get great accuracy. Patience is a good thing. Watch the classifieds. I’ve picked up quite a few ~$1500 custom actioned guns in the classifieds over the years.
The problem right now is this crazy time. Everything is inflated. I’m amazed at some of the asking prices in the classifieds right now.
A good way to get what you want is buy a Remington action, buy a barrel from Urbanrifleman, a Jewell trigger from Larry Scott and look for a stock at Stocky’s. That will end up at around $1500-1650 range and be brand new.

 

[JSH]

Figuring the wind and getting a good range, NO cartridge will make up for that. Some may fair better than others, but the BR or Creedmoor are not magic.

The mirage gives me more fits than wind or range. If you want a rifle that will poke a dog at say 1000 yards, your going to have to spend some $$$$. Most days you will have a limited amount of time before mirage makes it all but impossible for much success.

I would do some hard testing and see what your 223 is capable of accuracy wise, look at a 60-69 grain bullet. Off the rack cry once rifle in 223, I have to say call Badrock and order one, you will play hell building one for what the charge.

My 6BR has seen ZERO use the last couple of years. I did buy not one but two 6Creedmoors, (no adult supervision). I have not used one yet, still tuning.
I always have a 223 with me. Then it is what ever I decide is best for the situation. This year the 17 Remington came out after being neglected for a couple of trips. It is a cartridge a lot of people talk poorly of, I admit to being hard headed, I was connecting when my buddy was struggling with his 20P. I was as surprised as he was on how well this “inferior” wind blown cartridge worked out to 700+.

You think the 223 is lacking, curious as to what glass your using.
Also, how heavy is your rig? I myself like them heavy. Anything under 20 pounds is light.

I will be of little help as I am a rifle loonie, eaten up with 17’s and 20’s the past few years.

 

[6MMsteve]

6xc would be a good choice or 6br, 6br you can run pretty good strings of fire with it 10 to 16 maybe more, 6xc 10 shot strings then cool,

 

[adrianrog]

Figuring the wind and getting a good range, NO cartridge will make up for that. Some may fair better than others, but the BR or Creedmoor are not magic.

The mirage gives me more fits than wind or range. If you want a rifle that will poke a dog at say 1000 yards, your going to have to spend some $$$$. Most days you will have a limited amount of time before mirage makes it all but impossible for much success.

I would do some hard testing and see what your 223 is capable of accuracy wise, look at a 60-69 grain bullet. Off the rack cry once rifle in 223, I have to say call Badrock and order one, you will play hell building one for what the charge.

My 6BR has seen ZERO use the last couple of years. I did buy not one but two 6Creedmoors, (no adult supervision). I have not used one yet, still tuning.
I always have a 223 with me. Then it is what ever I decide is best for the situation. This year the 17 Remington came out after being neglected for a couple of trips. It is a cartridge a lot of people talk poorly of, I admit to being hard headed, I was connecting when my buddy was struggling with his 20P. I was as surprised as he was on how well this “inferior” wind blown cartridge worked out to 700+.

You think the 223 is lacking, curious as to what glass your using.
Also, how heavy is your rig? I myself like them heavy. Anything under 20 pounds is light.

I will be of little help as I am a rifle loonie, eaten up with 17’s and 20’s the past few years.

I don't know what my Rem700VS weighs, whatever the factory rifle weighs minus 4 inches of barrel. Way under 20 lbs. My glass on that rifle is a Leupold 6.5-20X50. It was pretty common to see my bullets blown 4-5 feet off at long distances. They were just 55 grain bullets though.

 

[JSH]

I don't know what my Rem700VS weighs, whatever the factory rifle weighs minus 4 inches of barrel. Way under 20 lbs. My glass on that rifle is a Leupold 6.5-20X50. It was pretty common to see my bullets blown 4-5 feet off at long distances. They were just 55 grain bullets though.

Weight isn’t everything, probably a personal preference, I like heavy enough I can see my impacts easily to correct if need be.
Your glass is good to go, I have three of the same, then usually run below max 15-18X.
4-5 feet, if you have an idea or recall rough distance will help, losing 4” of barrel doesn’t do you any favors, what kind of speed were the 55’s running? Get some rough numbers with the 223 dope. As always accuracy trumps speed, but this game I want as much speed as I can get with good accuracy.

Now do a little reading and studying of what above suggested cartridges will do in the wind, see if cost justifies it.

 

[SecondsCount]

If you were seeing your bullets blown 4-5 feet at 500 then you were seeing 15+ MPH winds. A 6BR would still be a couple of feet in that kind of wind.

 

[swimster]

I have a Savage LRPV chambered for 223 AI 8 twist criterion Barrel 8 twist. I'm shooting 75g Amaxes around 3050 fps. Dose very well when the wind is up. If I only had one rifle for Pds this would be it.

 

[pdhntr]

.....My initial thought was something like a 6mm BR or 6mm Creedmoor with 105ish gr bullets. I'd love to find a used BR gun on this site, but I'm just not willing to spend $3K-$5K on a gun to shoot prairie dogs every 2-3 years. I've been thinking about it and I just can't get there in my mind. SO, with that in mind, here are my questions...

Years ago a pd shooting buddy and I got into a competition building the "ultimate prairie dog rifle". Of course we didn't know a lot about high BC bullets and twist, we just wanted to basically outdo each other.

We started with 243s and played around with different bullets, and so the next year, I trumped him with a 25-06 that I built. The following year, I built my brother a 7mm Remington Mag. with a 1.5 inch barrel. The year after that, my buddy built a 300 WSM, and I finally "won" with a 300 Win Mag with a 1.5 inch barrel at 30 inches in length. I still have the 300 and shoot it occasionally.

The MOST important thing we learned through all of this, if you have too much recoil to see the pd explode, or see where you are hitting so you can adjust your fire, you just don't have as much fun, or at the least, it can get frustrating. Sure you can turn down the magnification on the scope, but then it becomes harder for the longer shots.

I have used the 6Br on pds with a heavy barrel and it did well with the 87 gr. V-max. A 6 Creed shooting heavier bullets like the 105, I would recommend a heavy long barrel, and probably some weight in the stock. Also, I would recommend using frangible bullets. Target bullets can pencil through, and some can ricochet.

After everything I have shot at pds, I have settled on the 22-250. Both of mine have 1.25 diameter barrels at 30 inches. I get good velocity and there are tons of different bullets available that do the job, and I can see everything that happens in the scope.

I still take my 223s and 204s, but if I can't reach them with my 22-250, I shoot and move.

Jim

 

[SBS]

Rarely a day in PD fields without wind, so less wind drift, the better. Since we can't guess the wind exactly (like we can the range these days with all toys available), the less our bullets drift, the less penalized we are when we are wrong. When dogs are plentiful, you need at least 3 guns (we usually take 5 per person). That way you won't wear out your long range rifle on shorter targets and you'll have 2 others to rotate for most of your volume shooting. We have most factory calibers and some wildcats from 20 VT to 6mm AI and depends on time of the year what we take. No one has mentioned the big Sixes, but they are much better in the wind than lesser ones. My 6mm AI runs a 87 V-Max at almost 3600 fps out of a 30" bbl. with 3/8 MOA. It moves a 105 A-Max @ 3400 with similar accuracy. Even a standard 6MM Rem. will move the 87 V-Max @ 3400 fps. They are "barrel burners" as everyone will tell you, but when shot only at long range and not overheated, they will last a number of trips. There is no magic, better performance means shorter barrel life. My 6mm AI is a Savage target action; I have PD rifles on a number of these actions and quite a few of the factory large shank barrels have been accurate enough. Those that were not, I have replaced with custom barrels. These are single shot solid bottom actions, stiffer than repeaters, plus a longer continuous bedding surface. The single shot feature also discourages the rapid fire tendency which heats up the barrel quickly. The Target Accu-Trigger is not the best, but they are light enough. We shoot off benches and set our triggers about 1 lb. or a little less. The laminated stocks are tough and hold up well. Savages also are very versatile since bolt heads are user changeable and you can change barrels/calibers yourself with minimal equipment. Our other rifles are nearly all Rem. 40X and Rem. 700 single shot actions, mostly with shouldered barrels. Both brands work very well for PD hunts.

 

[joshb]

RIGHT NOW there is a 6bra on the sale board! Custom Kodiak action, 2 barrels, nice stock! The guy has dropped it to $1700. That is a deal!!! Buy the durn thing before I do!
Like I said, deals pop up from time to time!

 

[ebb]

The key info has been left out. You have never mentioned if you load or not. If you don't load the 6BR and all of the PPC options are out. from what i heard the 223 has not got the long range you need so the suggestions for 222 and 221 fireball are out as they have less range than the 223. A good 22-250 with a twist fast enough for longer bullets than common. If you load a 6BR would be a good one. 220 swift, 22 BR . Making you e own ammo is the key. And buying a factory rifle may be counter productive. Ive had better luck buying a used rifle and have a match grade barrel installed by some one that knows how to do it. Probably not the guy at the gun shop/pawn shop down the road.

 

[DaveTooley]

I don't know what my Rem700VS weighs, whatever the factory rifle weighs minus 4 inches of barrel. Way under 20 lbs. My glass on that rifle is a Leupold 6.5-20X50. It was pretty common to see my bullets blown 4-5 feet off at long distances. They were just 55 grain bullets though.

PM sent. I might have what you're looking for.

 

[ebb]

^^^^^^^ i would defiantly check out that offer