setting up head space with out go gages

[Warren Dean]

Warren Dean,
I understand him. Brass cases will compress closing the bolt, a headspace gauge won't. I chamber mine to just close with a stripped bolt. If I have a used rifle I check it with a stripped bolt with both the go and no go.

That's great and I'm glad you understand him.

But you misunderstand my meaning.

He is inferring something I did not say. Namely, the tape procedure being used as a "stop" instead of a verification procedure after the head space is set.

If the stripped bolt will close on the bare case with essentially no feel and then have slight feel when the tape is applied to the case head, the head space is where I want it.

I have used brass cases filled with epoxy for many years and they work just fine....if one has the feel for it. Very much like your method, but I use a different gauging method.

 

[butchlambert]

You can chamber to a case and it will work fine if you know how to size it after firing, but I wouldn't put one out that way.

 

[josebd]

ok,im getting a go-gage,put it in the chamber with bare bolt,run the barrel up hand tight,then after i tighten the nut,i check to be sure that the bolt still closes.now with the go-gage still in it,im going to use .0015 and .002 piece of feeler gauge one at a time,and make sure bolt wont close

 

[Tim Singleton]

Warren Dean,
I understand him. Brass cases will compress closing the bolt, a headspace gauge won't. I chamber mine to just close with a stripped bolt. If I have a used rifle I check it with a stripped bolt with both the go and no go.

That's great and I'm glad you understand him.

But you misunderstand my meaning.

He is inferring something I did not say. Namely, the tape procedure being used as a "stop" instead of a verification procedure after the head space is set.

If the stripped bolt will close on the bare case with essentially no feel and then have slight feel when the tape is applied to the case head, the head space is where I want it.

I have used brass cases filled with epoxy for many years and they work just fine....if one has the feel for it. Very much like your method, but I use a different gauging method.

I didn't think what I stated was hard to understand. I was not responding to your post sir
I was answering the OP question SETTING UP HEAD SPACE without GO gauges.
using a piece of brass tape or not to SET head space is not a good idea.
The brass will compress as you tighten the nut the barrel will turn in with the nut and the result will be to tight head space. You can go back and forth guessing how much the barrel turns in. Then check it with your taped brass. Most of the time multiple attempts. Or you could spend $25 and do it right.


Let me know if my opinion requires further explanation

 

[dantiff2]

This will explain everything...

http://youtu.be/KICBv-0U87Y

Dan

 

[josebd]

excellent video,even a professional uses tape!

 

[Tim Singleton]

This will explain everything...

http://youtu.be/KICBv-0U87Y

Dan

That's well and good for an action without a barrel nut. Notice he is using tape on a steel Go gauge
The OP is asking about tightening up a barrel nut against the action on a piece of brass. The barrel will turn with the nut and compress the brass

 

[dantiff2]

Setup with new, unfired brass is a bad idea. I have seen Lapua 6br brass .008" shy of the datum measurement compared to my go gauge. This means, if the headspace would have been setup with this brass, I would have never been able to bump the shoulder back after firing without having to modify the shell holder. For all the more they cost, buy a go gauge.

Dan

 

[Tim Singleton]

Setup with new, unfired brass is a bad idea. I have seen Lapua 6br brass .008" shy of the datum measurement compared to my go gauge. This means, if the headspace would have been setup with this brass, I would have never been able to bump the shoulder back after firing without having to modify the shell holder. For all the more they cost, buy a go gauge.

Dan

Excellent point

 

[Warren Dean]

Let me know if my opinion requires further explanation

No, that would be a waste of time. We obviously do headspacing differently and I don't care to get into a pissing match with you or anyone else over such a trivial matter.

You win.

 

[fguffey]

Setup with new, unfired brass is a bad idea. I have seen Lapua 6br brass .008" shy of the datum measurement compared to my go gauge. This means, if the headspace would have been setup with this brass, I would have never been able to bump the shoulder back after firing without having to modify the shell holder. For all the more they cost, buy a go gauge.

Dan

Excellent point

I would disagree:

But, as Warren Dean suggested, it would be a waste of time.

 

[Rustystud]

Earlier in this post I watched Gordy demonstrate using cellophane tape on the back of a Go Gauge, to make a "No Go Gauge.

Yes, I have done this before. An I know no one cares what is considered the industry standard, and what the number one Gun Manufacture/Gunsmith Liability insurance requires. Yes, Gun Manufactures have to carry Liability insurance to sell their products. Distributors, Wholesalers, and Retailers would not buy their products if they did not carry liability insurance. Many Manufactures will not sell to Distributors, wholesalers, and Retailers if they don't carry liability insurance.

Gunsmiths with a good business sense also carry liability insurance. The policies that I have read ask very specific questions about working within SAAMI specs, and if chambering and re-barreling is done does the gunsmith use steel "GO and No Go Gauges" when fitting new barrels. Most who are reading this are not "professional gunsmiths" and are chambering and re-barreling for themselves and read this with no concern. You will have concern if and when you have a catastrophic event, and then it is too late.

A simple solution to this question is for one to buy a feeler gauge set. Take the Go Gauge you have and trace the OD of the head on a .0035" feeler. Then take a set of tin snips and cut out a .0035" disc. After closing the bolt on the go gauge. Then insert the disc onto the bolt face. put a little dab of grease on the side contacting the bolt face to let it adhere, then close the bolt on the go gauge. The bolt should not close. This would count as a "steel gauge". While your at it you can make several similar discs of greater thicknesses to use in completing your head-spacing. They can be used to tell you how far you need to go to reach your final destination.

Good luck
Nat Lambeth

 

[dantiff2]

Setup with new, unfired brass is a bad idea. I have seen Lapua 6br brass .008" shy of the datum measurement compared to my go gauge. This means, if the headspace would have been setup with this brass, I would have never been able to bump the shoulder back after firing without having to modify the shell holder. For all the more they cost, buy a go gauge.

Dan

Excellent point

I would disagree:

But, as Warren Dean suggested, it would be a waste of time.

Why would you disagree? I just bought brand new, Norma, 6XC brass. It measure .005" short to the datum point in comparison to my PTG Go gauge. Just for shits and grins, I ran them into my new Redding FL die to iron out the necks and make sure everything was uniform. I ran the brass into the die in small increments (with the decapping assembly removed) until the shell holder was in full contact with the bottom of the die and the press was camming over. I never even touched the shoulder on this brass. There was no set back. If I used this brass as a go gauge, I would never be able to bump the shoulder back without modifying the shell holder to allow the brass to go into the die further. Yes, I could use tape or a feeler gauge to add length to the brass but the OP doesn't know what the datum length measurement is. This is a crucial measurement. All factory brass is undersized to fit a vast majority of chambers. It would be much more beneficial to have a brass that was once fired in the correct chamber than brand new out of the box brass. I never said it couldn't be done. But seriously. for $25, buy a go gauge.. Just my opinion.

Dan

 

[fguffey]

Earlier in this post I watched Gordy demonstrate using cellophane tape on the back of a Go Gauge, to make a "No Go Gauge.

The only way 'Gordy' can go from a go-gage to a no go-gage is add tape, if we were talking about a 30/06 chamber we would be adding .004" to the rear of the gage. If we were talking about a field reject length gage we would be talking about .009". I can accomplish the same task with a go-gage or a field reject length gage without the tape.

Why would you disagree?

Point? I would disagree, but disagreeing is a luxury I do not have.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I just bought brand new, Norma, 6XC brass. It measure .005" short to the datum point in comparison to my PTG Go gauge

You have a go-gage, you have a full length sizing die and you have a chamber with new cases. I am the fan of standards and transfers and I verify. If I had your gage, die, chamber and cases I would use the go-gage to determine the ability of the die and shell holder to size the case. I remove the primer punch/sizer ball assemble then place the gage in the die with the shell holder. To determine the difference in length between the deck of the shell holder and shoulder of the die measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder with a feeler gage.

Back to the 30/06, in the perfect world the gap would be .005".

F. Guffey

 

[dantiff2]

Very good point FGUFFEY. It's right around .0025". After the brass is fireformed, I will be able to bump the shoulder .0025-.0027". That's exactally what I did to make sure the die would work. We think alike 8)


Dan

 

[shortgrass]

Earlier in this post I watched Gordy demonstrate using cellophane tape on the back of a Go Gauge, to make a "No Go Gauge.

Yes, I have done this before. An I know no one cares what is considered the industry standard, and what the number one Gun Manufacture/Gunsmith Liability insurance requires. Yes, Gun Manufactures have to carry Liability insurance to sell their products. Distributors, Wholesalers, and Retailers would not buy their products if they did not carry liability insurance. Many Manufactures will not sell to Distributors, wholesalers, and Retailers if they don't carry liability insurance.

Gunsmiths with a good business sense also carry liability insurance. The policies that I have read ask very specific questions about working within SAAMI specs, and if chambering and re-barreling is done does the gunsmith use steel "GO and No Go Gauges" when fitting new barrels. Most who are reading this are not "professional gunsmiths" and are chambering and re-barreling for themselves and read this with no concern. You will have concern if and when you have a catastrophic event, and then it is too late.

A simple solution to this question is for one to buy a feeler gauge set. Take the Go Gauge you have and trace the OD of the head on a .0035" feeler. Then take a set of tin snips and cut out a .0035" disc. After closing the bolt on the go gauge. Then insert the disc onto the bolt face. put a little dab of grease on the side contacting the bolt face to let it adhere, then close the bolt on the go gauge. The bolt should not close. This would count as a "steel gauge". While your at it you can make several similar discs of greater thicknesses to use in completing your head-spacing. They can be used to tell you how far you need to go to reach your final destination.

Good luck
Nat Lambeth

But Nat,,,,,, they don't want to buy a steel headspace gauge!

 

[fguffey]

But Nat,,,,,, they don't want to buy a steel headspace gauge!

And then there are those that have other options, there are very few that can make their own gages. There are even fewer that can modify a gage. Even fewer, there a very few that can measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face without a go-gage, or a no go-gage or a field reject gage.

Then there was an old timer that used one gage, and no tape, no shims, he was good.

F. Guffey

 

[shortgrass]

Ya' got a tool & cutter grinder sitting there, fguffey? I do. A nice Cincinnati Milicron with all the attachments. Trouble is, my time is worth more than the $25-$30 that the gauge costs! I've even got 30+ yrs. experience making/sharpening tools on precision grinders, so I know how to make it work!

 

[jkohler]

Wow