Setting headspace ??

[GAnderson]

When setting headspace on a savage barrel, do you set the "no go" to an absolute no, meaning no bolt handle closure/movement or do you set it to some bolt handle closure...say 1/4" rotation? Thanks

Gene

 

[Rustystud]

Head Space is a relative measurement. SAAMI defines the maximum difference between a Go and No Go Gauge as being 3 and 1/2 thousands. Be it from the Datum line, belt, or rim to the case head. There is some leeway in setting headspace. As long as the bolt will close on the Go gauge and not go into battery on the No Go gauge.

 

[GAnderson]

Head Space is a relative measurement. SAAMI defines the maximum difference between a Go and No Go Gauge as being 3 and 1/2 thousands. Be it from the Datum line, belt, or rim to the case head. There is some leeway in setting headspace. As long as the bolt will close on the Go gauge and not go into battery on the No Go gauge.

Thanks Rusty, I have it set so the bolt only starts to close (about 1/4" of handle throw) and will not move any more on the no go and it closes nice and smooth and easy on the go gage. Just wanted to be sure on things from those more knowledgable. Thanks again

Gene

 

[carlsbad]

It really doesn't matter if you're reloading and hardly matters if you're shooting factory. Here are two things you should do:

1. Set your dies to match your chamber. So once you get your dies set to bump shoulder minimally, then don't change your barrel. If you take it off, put it back the same way. Not easy to do with go/no-go gauges which are nominally .004" apart but seems you've got a start on it
2. If you have 2 rifles of the same caliber, set them both the same so your dies are set up for proper shoulder bump is the same.

--Jerry

 

[GAnderson]

Thanks Jerry,
This was a new, chambered, pre-fit barrel. Just wanted to get it set as "correctly" as possible. Will fire a couple of rounds, measure them and then set the dies for proper sizing/bump. Thanks

Gene

 

[DennisH]

I set all mine up like this . . . When using the No Go gauge, I look for maximum pressure around the 2 to 3 o'clock position. And make sure it doesn't go any further, period.

I don't want any part of the brass stretching when it doesn't have to. Sometimes the person wants to see the barrel information, it could be done, but I record the information and set them up this way. I have pulled the "butt plate" off, and drilled a small hole, put the recorded info in this hole for permanent storage that never leaves the rifle! Just my way.

Has worked perfect every time, and my brass last!

 

[GAnderson]

I set all mine up like this . . . When using the No Go gauge, I look for maximum pressure around the 2 to 3 o'clock position. And make sure it doesn't go any further, period.

I don't want any part of the brass stretching when it doesn't have to. Sometimes the person wants to see the barrel information, it could be done, but I record the information and set them up this way. I have pulled the "butt plate" off, and drilled a small hole, put the recorded info in this hole for permanent storage that never leaves the rifle! Just my way.

Has worked perfect every time, and my brass last!

Thanks DennisH, that is pretty much what I was thinking...minimum brass stretch. The bolt stops right at the 2 o'clock position on "no go". The "go" chambers nice and easy. New piece of brass chambers easy too. Will fire a couple rounds and measure them today. Thanks to all...just needed a little assurance on the process.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I set all mine up like this . . . When using the No Go gauge, I look for maximum pressure around the 2 to 3 o'clock position. And make sure it doesn't go any further, period.

I don't want any part of the brass stretching when it doesn't have to. Sometimes the person wants to see the barrel information, it could be done, but I record the information and set them up this way. I have pulled the "butt plate" off, and drilled a small hole, put the recorded info in this hole for permanent storage that never leaves the rifle! Just my way.

Has worked perfect every time, and my brass last!

This is how I do it.

 

[Ray Gross]

…SAAMI defines the maximum difference between a Go and No Go Gauge as being 3 and 1/2 thousands.

Hi Nate, where can I find the reference for that?

SAAMI defines MIN & MAX headspace dimensions, but I see nothing about GO, NO GO or FIELD from them.

My understanding is that for cases headspacing on the shoulder, GO gages are made to the MIN dimension, FIELD to MAX dimension and NO GO seems to be .004 to .006 over GO, depending on the gauge maker.

 

[tobnpr]

I run a half dozen different cases through the sizing die I'll be using, measure with a comparator and take the longest (not uncommon for a small amount of variation from spring back).
Place it in the chamber, screw the barrel in until contact, tighten her down and confirm stripped bolt closes with very light or no resistance.
Boltface is now set to the shoulder datum distance of the sizing die. "Zero" headspace or close to it.
Rarely use a no-go, might throw a piece of tape on the go gauge; but assuming I did it correctly and didn't let the barrel rotate when tightening the but, it can't be anything but right.

I have never heard of using a no-go gauge to set headspace, only to confirm that headspace does not exceed SAAMI spec if there's a reason to do that.

Y'all have confused the hell out of me...

 

[alinwa]

..........
Y'all have confused the hell out of me...

no they haven't

 

[vuendox]

It really doesn't matter if you're reloading and hardly matters if you're shooting factory. Here are two things you should do:

1. Set your dies to match your chamber. So once you get your dies set to bump shoulder minimally, then don't change your barrel. If you take it off, put it back the same way. Not easy to do with go/no-go gauges which are nominally .004" apart but seems you've got a start on it
2. If you have 2 rifles of the same caliber, set them both the same so your dies are set up for proper shoulder bump is the same.

--Jerry

I'm brand new to this form, very appreciative to be a part of the community. I have an situation relating to this thread that I can't seem to find a direct explanation for. I have a Remage criterion barrel setup for a Remington 700 stainless LA, chambered for .243 Win (LA so I can seat heavy bullets out for long range and still fit in magazine). I have a set of go/no-go forster gauges. Chambered go gauge with bolt closed fully (bolt WITHOUT ejector, but WITH the extractor) and screwed barrel gently up until I barely felt touch resistance by the go gauge, very lightly. Checked no-go gauge, bolt wouldn't even begin to close. I felt great about that, and began using factory Winchester ammo to work on a feeding issue. Noticed the bolt needing significant amount of effort to close on factory ammo, but don't have the experience to think it was a problem. Chambered factory ammo probably about 50 rounds to work on feeding issue, didn't think to grease lugs but did use some mineral oil and noticed the lugs starting to lightly gall!! I'm hoping to shoot mostly factory ammo for a while until I get fully set up to reload, so I'm really not sure what to do at this point. My last move was to set headspace to the Winchester ammo, which seems to be in the middle between the go/no-go gauges, probably closer to go gauge. At this point the bolt only slightly begins to close on the no-go gauge. Mostly concerned about my lugs galling, feel like a really screwed the pooch on that one, haven't even fired my rifle yet. Any explanation for what's happening?

 

[carlsbad]

1. Since it is a remage, it can change as you tighten the barrel nut. Did you recheck it after you tightened it up? Even if you did, recheck it now. Not a fan of remage is it can get wrong. Shouldered barrels can't. So double check, this is likely the problem.

2. without the ejector, the bolt should just fall with go gauge in chamber. (take the firing pin out so you don't have trigger engagement). Does it fall from gravity?

finally, lugs shouldn't gall, but if they are, I'd stop shooting it and have them cleaned up by a competent gunsmith. If they really are galling, they will get worse fast.

--Jerry

 

[BoydAllen]

Not totally on topic, but some good food for thought.

 

[vuendox]

1. Since it is a remage, it can change as you tighten the barrel nut. Did you recheck it after you tightened it up? Even if you did, recheck it now. Not a fan of remage is it can get wrong. Shouldered barrels can't. So double check, this is likely the problem.

2. without the ejector, the bolt should just fall with go gauge in chamber. (take the firing pin out so you don't have trigger engagement). Does it fall from gravity?

finally, lugs shouldn't gall, but if they are, I'd stop shooting it and have them cleaned up by a competent gunsmith. If they really are galling, they will get worse fast.

--Jerry

Hey Jerry,
Thanks for your response!
I used the action wrench in a vice and threaded my barrel in by hand to feel the go gauge, not sure if you're saying the barrel may shift/turn when I torque my remage nut when using the action wrench vs doing the job with a barrel vice, however I don't think that was the case. I did recheck the go gauge after torquing the nut and the bolt close and open felt the same to me. However, I pulled out the ejector, but I had the firing pin assembly installed! So, no it didn't fall with gravity, I was feeling the tension of the firing pin and all as well. I'm going to redo it all without the firing pin assembly to get the better feel (gravity fall) of the bolt.

About the lugs galling, I may just be paranoid mixed with inexperience on the issue, I've tried to take pictures, however I can't seem to get the lighting/zoom right. I'll have a few people check them out.

Thanks, appreciate it very much!

 

[alinwa]

Hey Boyd (always like Gordy's stuff) did you get that lathe yet???

Anyways..... just for you....

I was recently matching chambers on 4 different, wildly different, actions ...... a 700, a Kodiak, A Stiller TAC and an Alpine, indexing to an existing Borden.

The PROBLEM is, I torque my stuff down ALA Vaughn. And each action compresses at a different rate. What this means is, I Gordy it all up to the squillionth and upon torquing/indexing they all end up different!


Soooooo,


I made me a T-handle.

I now short-chamber everything, torque/time it and then whittle the last few tenths out by hand! 5 different guns/barrels/actions and I can quite literally reach into a bin of 50-times-fired brass cases and chuck them like skittles at any and all setups willy-nilly. (Obviously I DON'T do that.... but I COULD!)


freaky-cool

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Hey Jerry,
Thanks for your response!
I used the action wrench in a vice and threaded my barrel in by hand to feel the go gauge, not sure if you're saying the barrel may shift/turn when I torque my remage nut when using the action wrench vs doing the job with a barrel vice, however I don't think that was the case. I did recheck the go gauge after torquing the nut and the bolt close and open felt the same to me. However, I pulled out the ejector, but I had the firing pin assembly installed! So, no it didn't fall with gravity, I was feeling the tension of the firing pin and all as well. I'm going to redo it all without the firing pin assembly to get the better feel (gravity fall) of the bolt.

About the lugs galling, I may just be paranoid mixed with inexperience on the issue, I've tried to take pictures, however I can't seem to get the lighting/zoom right. I'll have a few people check them out.

Thanks, appreciate it very much!

Why not headspace it off your long factory rounds until you get them shot up?

 

[DennisH]

I have a set of go/no-go Forster gauges. Chambered go gauge with bolt closed fully (bolt WITHOUT ejector, but WITH the extractor) and screwed barrel gently up until I barely felt touch resistance by the go gauge, very lightly. Checked no-go gauge, bolt wouldn't even begin to close. I felt great about that, and began using factory Winchester ammo to work on a feeding issue. Noticed the bolt needing significant amount of effort to close on factory ammo, but don't have the experience to think it was a problem. Chambered factory ammo probably about 50 rounds to work on feeding issue, didn't think to grease lugs but did use some mineral oil and noticed the lugs starting to lightly gall!! I'm hoping to shoot mostly factory ammo for a while until I get fully set up to reload, so I'm really not sure what to do at this point.

Refer back to posts 6 & 8.

First, On several Remington Action 700, some people have the "Action" faced trued. Several gun smiths claim this should be a must on Remington 700 Actions especially when installing a Rem-Age barrel.

Rarely, I will use light "gun grease" for the bolt part. I never use an automotive type grease.

One comment I will make, my personal feelings. When head spacing a rifle (my process is stated above), I want a snug "Go-Gauge" fit, but I "don't" want any resistance. Second, either with .002 shipping tape or a no gauge, I want the handle to stop between the 2pm to 3pm position looking from the rear. I favor closer to the 2pm position.

I have set up hundreds this way. No-matter which brass I shoot, they all chamber without effort. After tightening the Bolt, I verify the handle stops at the 2pm position. The bolt does not have any resistance until it reaches the 2pm position. I sometimes check the setting when using different brass, but have never had a cambering issue. Every now and then, I will have a few pieces of brass that require effort to lock the bolt in place. I measured these case, and the culprit was "always" the shoulder area of the brass, and only being off a .001 or so. Either the brass was not bumping the full .002, or I was not putting enough pressure while FL sizing my brass.

If your factory Ammo has results as i mentioned, tighten everything up, then recheck it. It still should be good to go. Then go shooting.

I do put a small amount of Gun Grease on other bolt components, especially the inner parts of the bolt assembly.

Good Luck, and Merry Christmas,

Dennis

 

[vuendox]

Thanks Dannis!

Your feedback is very helpful. I'm assuming you'd agree to pull the firing pin to feel the free movement of the bolt without firing spring pressure? Thinking about it, that seems like it would be a good thing to do.

I did have my R700 action face trued (front face of the action), I believe they lapped the bolt lugs as well. Got it from Northland Shooters Supply.

After much research and weighing a lot of people's feedback, I decided to use Mobil 1 full synthetic EP, high temp grease. What's your reasons to not use automotive type greases?

Cheers, I'll disassemble and set it right using this info.

Merry Christmas!

 

[DennisH]

Thanks Dannis!

Your feedback is very helpful. I'm assuming you'd agree to pull the firing pin to feel the free movement of the bolt without firing spring pressure? Thinking about it, that seems like it would be a good thing to do.

I did have my R700 action face trued (front face of the action), I believe they lapped the bolt lugs as well. Got it from Northland Shooters Supply.

After much research and weighing a lot of people's feedback, I decided to use Mobil 1 full synthetic EP, high temp grease. What's your reasons to not use automotive type greases?

Cheers, I'll disassemble and set it right using this info.

Merry Christmas!

Yes, pulling the firing pin is a great suggestions, the ejector pin is the most critical. Once you get a feel for the process, you will realize when your exactly at your mark. The pin puts a little pressure on the gauges, but not that much. You will know when your at your go setting, the same for no-go.

Most go overboard with lubes on their bolt assemblies and 2nd is triggers. Most automotive grease is flamable. I realize this is far out with anything happening with grease on our bolt/trigger parts, I was taught this way, and by habit, I only use light "gun grease", very sparingly. You don't need much. FWIW, I also put a "fine" film on the shoulders of my brass before firing. This is the areas that will experience the most "friction" when shooting. Just don't go overboard, and never put any lube on the bullet itself. Mobil 1 is good, just use a quality 'gun grease" to be safe.

Thanks, Dennis