Set up 100 yards vs 200 yrds

[slydo]

Hi you all, thanks for your input
How the SAME set up : Case, load, bullet, depth etc etc can shoot great (sub MOA) @ 100 yrds but being bad @ 200 and + ?
Read that problem on couple site but I CAN'T understand it
If you get 0.500" @ 100 yrds how can you get 2.500" - 3.00" @ 200??
From Québec with love

 

[Ccrider]

Wind.

 

[Fuj]

Or an "extremely" poor choice in twist rates. Your optics can
play with you also.......What are you shooting, and how are you
shooting it ??

 

[newbieshooter]

Grouping @ 100 yrds vs 200 yrds

Hi you all, thanks for your input How the SAME set up : Case, load, bullet, depth etc etc can shoot great (sub MOA) @ 100 yrds but being bad @ 200 and + ? Read that problem on couple site but I CAN'T understand it If you get 0.500" @ 100 yrds how can you get 2.500" - 3.00" @ 200?? Except...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[slydo]

Or an "extremely" poor choice in twist rates. Your optics can
play with you also.......What are you shooting, and how are you
shooting it ??

You guys reading too fast... It's not me
But for your info 300 WSM BLR 165 Gr
Grouping 4.5" @ 400 with balanced commercial ammo

 

[M-61]

balanced commercial ammo

Not sure what that is. Balanced?

 

[Uncle Bruce]

Not sure what that is. Balanced?

Shooting at 600 and 1000yard, you can shoot a good 200 yard load and be completely out of the loop. You must test at the longer distance. The bullet usually has to "go to sleep " .

 

[DR1586]

Because accuracy is not linear. Everything matters more at greater distance. Its been this way since the dawn of shooting.

 

[slydo]

Not sure what that is. Balanced?

Bullet removed... Load balanced @ +/- 0.05 gr. Bullets replaced @ .030" from the rifling.... Only the crimp come in play .. some bullets are way easier to remove and re insert

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm still not sure what is meant by "balanced" but wind is the most likely cause. Are you using wind flags?

 

[dellet]

Balanced commercial ammo. Just a guess.

Factory ammo, broken down powder re weighed “balanced” to tighter tolerance. Bullet seated to more favorable seated depth.

Slydo has mentioned he is new to reloading and I’m guessing that English is not exactly native being from Quebec. Can make it tough to interpret
Maybe this is easier or more cost effective that starting from scratch for some reason.

 

[M-61]

Factory ammo, broken down powder re weighed “balanced” to tighter tolerance. Bullet seated to more favorable seated depth

Yes, could be. If so I think a better choice would be ‘consistent’ .
Actually an interesting concept. I really haven’t had any factory ammo in decades. But I’m interested. I was given a bunch of factory 308’s. Over 200. I’ve used them as foulers over the years as I do have a 308 that ‘needs’ 3 rounds down the barrel before it is somewhat accurate.
I certainly can pull the bullet, weigh a couple, reload them to the same weight and seat the bullets. Never tried it at all and be interesting to see what variations (if any) there is.

 

[Murray Brook]

To achieve this you ( I believe ) you would need to recrimp the case. The Lee factory crimp die would be good. Factory ammo has little neck tension. They get their start pressure ( neck tension) by using a crimp.

 

[Ruger15151]

Bullet removed... Load balanced @ +/- 0.05 gr. Bullets replaced @ .030" from the rifling.... Only the crimp come in play .. some bullets are way easier to remove and re insert

If you are saying that some bullets are "easier to remove than others" your issue is likely caused by varying neck tension which is the interference between the bullet and neck. You are referring to that as "crimp" but crimp is another thing altogether which will actually ruins long range accuracy. You may not see that affect of varying neck tension in your grouping at 100 yards but it will affect them at longer distances.

Neck tension is a tuning tool that will affect group size. Once you find the neck tension your barrel/powder/primer combination likes, it has to be consistent in order to shoot small groups at distance.

At the end of the day, many things can affect your group size at distance, including you. However, shooting small at short range doesn't mean you will shoot small at distance.

 

[snert]

I think he is removing the bullet, checking the charge, re-seating the bullet. ??

 

[Ruger15151]

I think he is removing the bullet, checking the charge, re-seating the bullet. ??

Sounds like it, which will change the neck tension.

 

[ELR LVR]

Shooting at 600 and 1000yard, you can shoot a good 200 yard load and be completely out of the loop. You must test at the longer distance. The bullet usually has to "go to sleep " .

This ....or the bullet is marginally stable/not enough twist rate
I don't like to be on the edge of stability, I see groups open up
I prefer to overstabilize if given the choice between the two
Supposedly according to people more experienced than myself
----there is no such thing as being OVER Stable
(just look at how well 55 grain varmint bullets shoot in a 7 twist AR)
Over spinning a bullet I dont think matters much until you get past 1000, or go transonic
Under Spinning though, they may not even fly through a target at 100 yds straight and will keyhole
Look at your holes and see if they are oblong / elongated or even showing a trace of what looks like a comet tail on the perimeter.
If there is a comet tail, your bullets are about to come apart and blow up, due to
Too much velocity for the jacket to handle and will actually start to corkscrew in flight
before simply blowing up all of a sudden.
I'll take a pic of a Comet Tail so you see what I mean
Hornady's , freakin Hornady 105's man, they won't hold together for me

 

[J_idaho]

You guys reading too fast... It's not me
But for your info 300 WSM BLR 165 Gr
Grouping 4.5" @ 400 with balanced commercial ammo

What scope and reticle?

 

[ELR LVR]

First pic is how to recognize a Comet Tail (bullet starting to come apart)
Also notice how that 100 yd group is rather spread out and not showing any real signs of clustering
It looks like a spiraling pencil mark curling toward the center, this is a trail of molten lead leaking out
from a compromised jacket.
The 100 yd group here is about the size of a 580 yd group due strictly to the bullet
This may not be your issue but should be noted in case you see this curved tail around the perimeter
Factory bullets are also not always the best to gauge your rifles accuracy, especially things like FMJ's
Not all bullets are created equally, the center of form does not always coincide with its center of gravity.
Regardless of that, the second pic shows what the same rifle is capable of when everything is sorted out
Especially with a quality bullet.
Try some known quality bullets perhaps such as Sierra or Bergers.
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I remember one time I bought some bargain basement 223 ammo from Big 5, mainly for the brass
It shot literally 3 inch groups at 100 yds, I was beside myself trying to trouble shoot. LOL
I seriously thought my rifle was shot out or something because it usually printed 1/2" groups before that.
Turned out, it was the factory ammo, and FMJ's

 

[ELR LVR]

I had to go back in my log books over 20 years to find this one lol
Here is a better picture of the Comet Tails showing more pronounced evidence
of what's happening, (thin jackets and higher velocities are the reason this happens)