drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
I worked trauma for a long time. I have treated a lot of GSWs. Don’t use .22lr for self-defense.
Self Defense Choice: .22 LR Revolver or .38 Special With Wad Cutters
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snert
Silver $$ Contributor
I think I would have her shoot both and decide for herself.
A 38 not carried or not shot well doesn't beat a 22 that is.
When I first acquired a permit to carry in NY, before I was a cop, (I subsequently served 17 years as chief firearms instructor and this advice comes from that experience) I carried a Ruger MK2 Government model HB inside the waist. Concealed. Honestly, it was all I could afford at the time, served triple duty...as my plinker, my rabbit gun and as a carry gun. I was confident that ten rounds of Segmented 22 to the chest and face was going to dissuade the local riff raff while I beat feet.
There are several easy to shoot and maintain 22 semi autos on the market, as well as a couple revolvers, if I recall maybe even a Ruger LCR?
Bottom line, she has to like it, shoot it and enjoy it or you are just buying another gun for yourself. (Which is ok too...in that case I strongly suggest a Python for the little lady).
I know my opinion is an outlier. But I know a lot of guys whose wives have guns, but that's all they have...ownership. When asked if I can see it, only once has wifey produced it from her person. The rest had it at home. When pressed, most admitted to not shooting it for...XX... amount of time.
Just my thoughts... so I have no problem or offense if the advice isn't taken.
A 38 not carried or not shot well doesn't beat a 22 that is.
When I first acquired a permit to carry in NY, before I was a cop, (I subsequently served 17 years as chief firearms instructor and this advice comes from that experience) I carried a Ruger MK2 Government model HB inside the waist. Concealed. Honestly, it was all I could afford at the time, served triple duty...as my plinker, my rabbit gun and as a carry gun. I was confident that ten rounds of Segmented 22 to the chest and face was going to dissuade the local riff raff while I beat feet.
There are several easy to shoot and maintain 22 semi autos on the market, as well as a couple revolvers, if I recall maybe even a Ruger LCR?
Bottom line, she has to like it, shoot it and enjoy it or you are just buying another gun for yourself. (Which is ok too...in that case I strongly suggest a Python for the little lady).
I know my opinion is an outlier. But I know a lot of guys whose wives have guns, but that's all they have...ownership. When asked if I can see it, only once has wifey produced it from her person. The rest had it at home. When pressed, most admitted to not shooting it for...XX... amount of time.
Just my thoughts... so I have no problem or offense if the advice isn't taken.
My choice for, most women would Be, the S & W Model 14, 15 or, 19, with a 4" barrel, GOOD, Rubber Grips and, 125 gr, .38 SPL, H-P's and work upwards on Velocity,. as far as she can,.. "Handle",. the Recoil ! There are, lots of GOOD 125 gr. Defense Loads and they Recoil,. Less than,.. Most,. 158's.
I have a Model 14, 6" and shoot 125's at 1,100 FPS for Defense and carry Snake Shot, CCI Loads for. Rattlers.
I had, a 2" Snubby S & W and SOLD It,.. as,.. it was, USELESS past,. 6 Feet !!!
My EDC is a Glock 19, Gen 3 with, lots of "Goodies",. But would NOT reccommend it, to a Woman Unless she was VERY Proficient with, Pistols ! You DON'T ever, want to Be UNDER Gunned when, the Chip's are, Down !
.38's and 9 MM's are, the SMALLEST defense Cal's that,.. I would, EVER use !
I have a Model 14, 6" and shoot 125's at 1,100 FPS for Defense and carry Snake Shot, CCI Loads for. Rattlers.
I had, a 2" Snubby S & W and SOLD It,.. as,.. it was, USELESS past,. 6 Feet !!!
My EDC is a Glock 19, Gen 3 with, lots of "Goodies",. But would NOT reccommend it, to a Woman Unless she was VERY Proficient with, Pistols ! You DON'T ever, want to Be UNDER Gunned when, the Chip's are, Down !
.38's and 9 MM's are, the SMALLEST defense Cal's that,.. I would, EVER use !
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troupe
Gold $$ Contributor
You are looking for help while practicing, you will not hear anything but a pop if you are ever in a true life and death encounter, I can promise that. The adrenaline will over ride everything else. You can compensate for the noise and recoil at the range. Most of the thugs that you would encounter are as scared, they also have the adrenaline dump, or worse drugs in the system. One shot stops are TV in most cases. Get what you can shoot well and practice. I have seen a thug patched up with 2 bandaids after taking a 22 between the eyes. The bullet enter, traveled all of the way around to the back of the skull under the skin, and then exited. No severe damage and 2 bandaids repaired the damage.
I picked up a 3” Ruger LCR .22 to teach my wife how to shoot a revolver well. The trigger pull is heavy, but smooth, and she was doing very well at 10 yards. She probably shot up 500 rounds before I pulled out a .38 for her to try.
With the .38 Model 10 snubbie with +P loads, she is not yet proficient. With light 158 SWC loads she is just OK, but certainly could not qualify with it just yet. IMHO she needs about 1500 rounds of .22 through the LCR before she will have the trigger control to move to the .38. Then she’ll probably need about 300 rounds of mouse fart loads to get comfortable with the .38
Time and practice is what she will need to be good with a .38…until she can shoot a well, a .22 is better than a stick or a rock.
MQ1
With the .38 Model 10 snubbie with +P loads, she is not yet proficient. With light 158 SWC loads she is just OK, but certainly could not qualify with it just yet. IMHO she needs about 1500 rounds of .22 through the LCR before she will have the trigger control to move to the .38. Then she’ll probably need about 300 rounds of mouse fart loads to get comfortable with the .38
Time and practice is what she will need to be good with a .38…until she can shoot a well, a .22 is better than a stick or a rock.
MQ1
I have a 5 shot 38 air weight for my wife, it's loaded with 110 grain Winchester Silver and 2 speed loaders.
I regularly carry a 9 x 18 Bulgarian Makarov with 95 grain critical duty.
Any 22 rimfire would not be my choice.
Centershot -
Back when I was an NRA certified Handgun Instructor, we happened to have Clint Smith in our immediate area ( Ft. Wayne, IN ). Clint had been out to Jeff Cooper's operation, and developed an ardent local bunch of shooters that carried 1911 .45ACP; and shot in what they referred to as " Practical Pistol Competition ". Included in this bunch were a couple of female Instructors that religiously carried a full-sized 1911 or Gold Cup. This bunch also ( to my recollection ) would only carry 225gr " Ball ".
I watched the gals to see how things went for them, as they shot various self defense drills.
To me, it never appeared to be a graceful pairing of shooter with the gun / ammo. Things just didn't seem to flow gracefully ( IMHO ). Use of a straight style grip safety didn't seem to help things, much.
We had a female instructor that carried and shot snubby .38Spl 6 shot S&W.
She also often specifically tutored female students, who pretty uniformly came to class with a .38SPL snub. Things went more smoothly for her ( again IMHO ). I had occasion to also instruct female students. Given things like typical female hand size and body contours, a large semi-auto would present significant challenges in both gun carrying & operation. Some belly pack-style carry was seen amongst the females, for all handgun types chosen.
For a shorty barrelled revolver, a 3" .38Spl or 3" .357Mag loaded w/ .38Spl. Self defense ammo would be a superior choice to use of shorter snubby...as-long-as the shooter can operate it satisfactorily; and also wear it in a useful carrying configuration. I say this because female students ( I observed ) that shot .38Spl Snubbies never appeared to me to " like it " all that much, with felt recoil being the chief contributor to comfort in their overall experience. These gals did none-the-less seem to otherwise embrace use of a short barreled .38Spl revolver, and I strongly believe a more substantial 3" barreled gun would help them with the recoil issue. The longer barrel barrel can only help, as regards the perceived report of the gun when fired. Muzzle blast and felt recoil are the major detractors to female comfort with the whole handgun operating experience. Then...comes total gun size and wt. I would also recommend a "K" frame-sized revolver ( if a revolver is chosen ) above going w/ a " J " frame size, if the lady can manage it. This can also mean 6 shots vs 5 shots at hand.
With regards,
357Mag
.
As regards operating a semi-auto, female students that I watched try both, overwhelmingly opted for the simplicity of operation the revolver presented.
.
centershot
Silver $$ Contributor
First off, I want to thank everyone for their input! One of the best threads I ever started. Must admit, I was a bit misleading on this.
Right now,my wife has a LCR in .357 that is loaded with Remington .38 110 grain which they, at that time, offered for short barreled guns. Purse carried.
The range that I belong to only lets you shoot a minimum of 10 yards. She shoots wad cutters for practice and at that distance it is difficult to get positive feedback with D A only and a 2" barrel.
What started me thinking on this thread was a discussion I had with a fellow member at the range. He had a LCR-X revolver in .22 for his wife. His thoughts were that not being afraid of the gun was important. That is got me going down the road of .22 vs .38. Found out there are several versions of that gun. I
like the 3" barrel in .38 and the "shrouded" hammer which allows for single action fire.
BTW, I have a K-38, 6 inch which she is deadly with.
Now I have to find one at a "reasonable" price. there are a few on Gunbroker.
Right now,my wife has a LCR in .357 that is loaded with Remington .38 110 grain which they, at that time, offered for short barreled guns. Purse carried.
The range that I belong to only lets you shoot a minimum of 10 yards. She shoots wad cutters for practice and at that distance it is difficult to get positive feedback with D A only and a 2" barrel.
What started me thinking on this thread was a discussion I had with a fellow member at the range. He had a LCR-X revolver in .22 for his wife. His thoughts were that not being afraid of the gun was important. That is got me going down the road of .22 vs .38. Found out there are several versions of that gun. I
like the 3" barrel in .38 and the "shrouded" hammer which allows for single action fire.
BTW, I have a K-38, 6 inch which she is deadly with.
Now I have to find one at a "reasonable" price. there are a few on Gunbroker.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Some of the older gals I know in Texas carry cattle prods in their cars. A friend carries a little 22 magnum revolver in his front pocket. He uses the “It’s better than nothing” reasoning. I carry a little 9mm semi. It’s just my bottom line, so to speak. I have a Glock 27 in 40 S&W that I’m practicing with and I dusted off a Sig 220 in 45 ACP. IT’s a double action and shoots well. I think having choices is good. I’d say get both but get the 22 in Magnum. If recoil has become a big issue, maybe buy a German Sheppard puppy as a back up.
Ive got a 36 hammerless 38 with hornady critical defense 90s I think. Eliminate another step dont worry about cocking and it wont snag on your pocket or purse . Just point and jerk. Doug
bpd459
Gold $$ Contributor
Shot placement in concert with the biggest / or smallest gun you can carry!!! Face shots are the new center mass. 30 years in Law Enforcement, I dealt with shootings with everything from .22lr, 50AE, 12ga and .300WM. I carried a Beretta 21A .22LR and a 2” S&W M12 with 158’s for UC work. I don’t care what you carry, just make the shots count. I’d rather 2 .22lr in the face than a miss with a .38spl HBWC.
I use a 22lr to shoot a lot of armadillos. Even with a solid body shot they will run back to their hole and die so I do not have to gather and get rid of them. I want the 2 legged armadillo drt.
At a family gathering, half women, we had 6 different handguns. From a S&W 22 Kit gun to a 1911. Everybody, 100% shot the S&W Shield the best. I was very surprised; I thought the Kit gun would be the easiest to shoot and the most accurate, hence the favorite. Most of the men were experienced and a couple of the women usually carried. I now recommend that new shooters try the Shield or the Shield EZ. And practice.
Our local police department has a "Ladies Day". Women only and they get to try several different weapons and excellent instruction. They limit it to about 30 and it fills up in just a few days and always a huge success.
Our local police department has a "Ladies Day". Women only and they get to try several different weapons and excellent instruction. They limit it to about 30 and it fills up in just a few days and always a huge success.
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This is a excellent revolver.
JSH
Gold $$ Contributor
I didn’t read through all of this, but recall int he 70’s or 80’s the HBW in a 38 did not penetrate well. Oh sure buck naked or a T-shirt. Seems like Charlie Petty did the article/articles maybe. Denim flannel shirt+tshirt was not any kind of a stopper, though imagine a large bruise was there. Jean jacket or winter jacket+clothes underneath, nope ain’t gonna go.
Results were even worse when wet or damp.
These were all pretty much soft bullseye loads.
As a fellow told me when I decided on a .380, the .380 beats a 45 at home in the safe.
Results were even worse when wet or damp.
These were all pretty much soft bullseye loads.
As a fellow told me when I decided on a .380, the .380 beats a 45 at home in the safe.
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