Secret recipe for Speer Gold Dot's "short barrel" loads?

[fatelvis]

I have been using Speer Gold Dot "short barrel" 135brn JHP load, and it shoots fast and accurate in my two 38spl snubbies. I want to try to duplicate it's velocity, but can't seem to reach it without +P+ pressures, which I want to avoid. I'm using fast powders, (Titegroup, Red Dot, Bullseye, 700X, and Clays) and can't seem to match the clocked 815fps from my 1 7/8" bbl. I don't want to pay over $1/shot to practice with!! Lol
Any ideas guys?

 

[troupe]

3n37 and 3n38. We used it in 38 super in USPSA and it made major power factor, but they were hot loads.

 

[DGP4]

Highest velocity according to Speer load data is with Alliant Power Pistol

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/38_Special_P_135.pdf

 

[fatelvis]

Thanks Guys. Those are two powders that I have no experience with, but will gladly buy if they do give me a bit more velocity at +P pressure. I wish the data given said what length barrel it was extrapolated from.

 

[SSL]

Hodgdon shows a +P load of 6.0 grains of CFE Pistol under a 140-grain bullet at 1,097 fps from a 7.7" barrel. Of course it would be a pretty severe velocity loss from your barrel...and probably a heck of a ball of fire!

 

[Gabe22BR]

I have been using Speer Gold Dot "short barrel" 135brn JHP load, and it shoots fast and accurate in my two 38spl snubbies. I want to try to duplicate it's velocity, but can't seem to reach it without +P+ pressures, which I want to avoid. I'm using fast powders, (Titegroup, Red Dot, Bullseye, 700X, and Clays) and can't seem to match the clocked 815fps from my 1 7/8" bbl. I don't want to pay over $1/shot to practice with!! Lol
Any ideas guys?View attachment 1636499

Best if just bulk buy the bullets, work up a load to your satisfaction-
No need to +P the load for plinking, get a few newer powders, and go at it.!!!

 

[243winxb]

See Speer data below for Short Barrel 2"

I use a cast 163 gr lswc with Unique. Just under 800 fps.in these 38 specials.

Use magnum primer.

 

[cem]

.............I'm using fast powders, (Titegroup, Red Dot, Bullseye, 700X, and Clays) and can't seem to match the clocked 815fps from my 1 7/8" bbl. I don't want to pay over $1/shot to practice with!! Lol
Any ideas guys? [emphasis added]

Use slower powders.

Notice that there is no crossover point where a fast powder load that is slower than a slower powder load in a long barrel becomes faster than the slower powder load in a short barrel. Sometimes more accurate and more uniform but never faster. Hence if there is a slower powder that gives a faster load in a long barrel that is the powder to use for higher speeds in a short barrel.

It is important to use the most current book data. There have been published loads as in the Speer #11 or touted by Jeff Cooper when he had a column that we now know are excessive.

 

[Krogen]

As noted above, you'll need slower powders than those you list. I ran a powder scan in Quickload and came up with the following list that you might want to consider. All of them showed velocities in the 850 - 900 fps range at +P pressures in your short barrel and the Speer bullet. Note that I didn't give any charge weights. Quickload is a simulation program, after all, and doesn't provide tested loading data. But the list may point you in the right direction.

Alliant POWER PISTOL
Vihtavuori 3N38
Alliant BLUE DOT
Vihtavuori N350
Vihtavuori 3N37
Shooters World Auto Pistol
Accurate No.5
Hodgdon HS-6
Hodgdon Longshot
Alliant HERCO
Ramshot True Blue
Winchester 540
Winchester WAP
Ramshot Silhouette

 

[troupe]

Start with 6.7 of 3N37 and work up to 7.2. You should find your preferred velocity.

 

[fatelvis]

I use a cast 163 gr lswc with Unique. Just under 800 fps.in these 38 specials.

Thank you 243winxb. And by "these 38 specials", you mean snubbies? Please tell me, are they home cast boolits? If so, what do you size them at? Are your cylinder throats reamed, or left as they come from the factory? I ask because my throats are both very tight from the factory, on my Lipsey 642UC, and my 638. I can't even push .357" bullets through the throats, without using a lot of force. This fact has been keeping me from using my home cast 140 and 158 SWCs. (Because I size them all to .358" or .359").

 

[243winxb]

Sized .3575" to .358" my home cast in my m60 & 337PD snubbies.
Factory throats. I size to barrel groove diameter, if accuracy seems off.

The target will tell you what works. The Unique loads are not as good accuracy wise, as this target load.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Load data for cast and jacketed don't match. Same load will usually have higher velocity with a cast bullet. Load the same weight as your defense bullet but at a lower velocity. Your guns will thank you and in a "situation" your muscles won't know the difference.

Frank

 

[243winxb]

Lead vs Jacketed data.

Just one example from my link. Other cartridges are listed.

 

[fatelvis]

I swear, you guys are geniuses! Lol
Seriously, this is truly a great forum.

 

[Doom]

Thanks Guys. Those are two powders that I have no experience with, but will gladly buy if they do give me a bit more velocity at +P pressure. I wish the data given said what length barrel it was extrapolated from.

You would assume that the barrel lengths are as specified in SAAMI unless indicated otherwise.

SAAMI Standards - SAAMI

Note: New & Revised Cartridge & Chamber Drawings not yet included in the standards can be found HERE. American National Standards Published by SAAMI The SAAMI Standards are published to provide safety, reliability, and interchangeability standards for commercial manufactures of firearms...

saami.org

 

[fatelvis]

Thank you so much for responding to my ad, but ….WOW! Lol
I have always loved firearms, and even more so I love manufacturing my own ammunition, and experimenting with different ingredients and loads, as I am an aspiring “ballistic chef”.‍ Admittedly, reading Saami’s website immediately bores me to tears. After much dry reading, I still haven’t got my answer as to barrel length! Lol

 

[Doom]

Each pistol/revolver cartridge is different so you have to refer to the test barrel dimension. For the 38 SPL you have two options one is a solid barrel (i.e. pistol) or vented (i.e. Revolver with gap for forcing cone). For pistol its 7.71"from breech and for revolver its 4" from gap (forcing cone).

 

[linebaugh]

Buy a cheap lee mold of similar weifht and a push through die of .358‐359. Establish velocity for jacketed and go down in powder a bit to match jacketed velocity for practice. Lee tumble lube and if you can find them the tumble lube specific bullet configuration, if not not biggie. Cheap shooting for practice and easy on the gun as cast usually have less psi per velocity when matched to jacketed.
The cheap lee lead pots are great for the price. Can source scrap lead on FB marketplace or Ebay.

A bit of an investment but you can shoot a lot of rounds cheap