.357 Magnum loads for 4" pistol barrel - without excessive flash

[Dewsweep530]

Hi Everyone,

I am not new to reloading, but fairly new to the .357 Magnum platform and am looking to tap into the wisdom and experience of the group. I have a S&W 686 Performance Center with a 4” barrel and would like to build some loads for it. I’ve tried some ladder loads already, as well as clocked factory loads to use as a benchmark and something to duplicate. See attached PDF chart showing the loads, averages, and extreme spread for each load.

It seems that my target to repeat the various factory loads is ~1180 FPS average velocity with an extreme spread of ~ 100 FPS.

I’ve tried H110, Alliant 2400, and Accurate # 5 thus far.

My issues are as follows:

• Most load manuals and information I’ve found are based on barrel length of at least 6” or more. Accurate information for a 4” barrel is hard to come by.
• Accurate #5 seems to increase in extreme spread as the charge value goes up. (Note – I measure each charge twice before handloading each one) That seems pretty unusual. It also would need to exceed recommended max. charge in order to get near the target of 1180 FPS.
• Alliant 2400 average velocity can reach target velocity, but extreme spread is huge. I suspect it is because the powder does not fill the case.
• H110 was what most recommend for the round, but the velocity patterns do not make any sense. Increasing the charges does not seem to increase the velocity – it just seems to make the fireball of burning gas that escapes from between the cylinder and forcing cone that much bigger – looks like a flame thrower!
• All powders had huge fireballs with each shot. Factory ammo did not by comparison.

I am using Hornady 158 grain XTP bullets, Starline brass, and CCI 550 SP Magnum primers and crimp each round to prevent bullets in the cylinder being jarred around from previous shots.

In my pistol powder inventory, I have the following (but am willing to add new powders if necessary):

• Accurate # 5
• Alliant 2400
• Blue Dot
• H110
• Herco
• HS-6
• Longshot

I am looking to see if anyone has any suggestions for a load, with or without those above powders, that would achieve my target velocity and ES without the huge fireballs out the sides.

Any suggestions or recipes?

 

[DGP4]

I use SW Clean Shot. It has an effective flash suppressant and as the name implies burns clean. It works equally well in .357 and 9mm.

 

[ShtrRdy]

it seems to me to not get fireballs you need to use a fast burning powder. With a quick look at the hodgdon website I saw a load of 6.9 gr of Win 231 giving 1220 fps on a Hornady 158 gr XTP bullet.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Accurate 11fs is essentially h110 with a flash suppressant and i was told by western powder to use h110 data

 

[CJ6]

I use a lot of VV 3N37 in my Speed Six (3"bbl) with 158s

 

[AckleymanII]

I shoot 125s. Sierra HP, Rem HP, Win HP

18.0g of H110 mag primer
17.8g of IMR 7828 mag primer
very light crimp

Bullets touch at 25 yards, shot off a cheap pistol rest

I have killed 8 coyotes with this load and several javelina. This load carries the freight, 1800 fps MV and 100 yds it is amazingly accurate.

 

[CJ6]

I shoot 125s. Sierra HP, Rem HP, Win HP

18.0g of H110 mag primer
17.8g of IMR 7828 mag primer
very light crimp

Bullets touch at 25 yards, shot off a cheap pistol rest

I have killed 8 coyotes with this load and several javelina. This load carries the freight, 1800 fps MV and 100 yds it is amazingly accurate.

7828???

 

[AckleymanII]

Oh Mercy, not 7828, IMR 4227! Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

 

[DHD]

Whatever powder Federal used to use in their 125 grain JHP. Just kidding.

Try the HS-6. My favorite "medium speed" powder for revolvers (32 H&R through 45 Colt). I use it exclusively with cast bullets whether with lube or powder coat. I will admit I don't pay any particular attention to flash, but notice it with the slower powders. That stated, I have never noted flash with HS-6.

If I had to only use 2 powders for revolvers, it would be H110/296 and HS-6. The next level up from HS-6 for me would be AA9. I don't get into the H110/296 until I want to push the bullets pretty hard. I also prefer heavy for caliber bullets. The lightest I use for 357 is from a MIHA mould and it is 165 grain with a large hollow point.

A thing I've noticed over using many pounds of HS-6 is the higher the charge (within reason for the cartridge) the cleaner it gets. That is one way to tell it "wants more" (again, within reason for the cartridge).

Factory ammo powders will use a flash suppressant so there is that. Extreme spreads is a thing when playing with these things. Some powders are bulkier than others and case fill is not a bad thing. However, match 38 Special wadcutter ammo can and does make my last sentence seem like total BS. Welcome to the world of revolver reloading and the gray hair it can produce...

 

[BHP9]

Regardless of powder, even with a 4" barrel, you will get flash due to incomplete powder burn inside the barrel.

I always go for accuracy over anything else.

 

[reed1911]

The reason for the larger flash with no increase in velocity is that you are simply not getting enough powder burn time in a 4" barrel. The huge fireball is excess powder burning as it leaves the barrel.

Blue Dot will reach your target velocity but will too have unused powder, but give it a shot. Small pistol mag primer 11.6g-12.6g.
Blue Dot is a pain to drop measure, but since you are doing it by hand it is pretty good with an initial drop and trickle up.

The faster burning powders will not reach your target velocity without over pressure.

Power Pistol with a standard small pistol primer (but you might try it with a mag primer too) at 8.0g-9.5g

Accurate #7 standard small pistol primer (but you might try it with a mag primer too) 10.2g-11.2g

 

[K22]

Been loading this great cartridge for 50+ years. Tried all types of powders and bullets.

Powders: The two best powders I've found are 2400 and 231. The former for full power loads the latter for medium power, but effective and very accurate loads.

Bullets: The best bullet I've found are the 140 grain and 125 grain Hornady XTP's. The former for applications where maximum power is needed, the latter for general application such as recreational shooting. My combos are 2400 with 140 grain bullets and 231 with 125 grain bullets.

Primers: Federal 100. Never had a misfire with these primers. I do not use magnum primers with 2400 anymore since Speer's 13th Edition with their new data and testing recommends standard primers for this powder.

As far as muzzle flash, 231 gives me the least amount of flash. Truth is, I do not notice it since my total focus is on the front sight. I shoot a 4" Model 19 S&W. As a general rule, faster powders produce lower muzzle flash especially in shorter barrels.

One other note, a firm roll crimp is essential to prevent bullet movement under recoil and to provide adequate neck tension for efficient powder burn. But do not overdo it.

 

[243winxb]

ALLIANT BE-86 Faster burn rate powder will be consumed , so no unburnt powder exits the muzzle. But velocity may be lower, compared to slow powders like 2400, H110 or 296.
https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloa...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=28

And https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/performance-of-alliants-new-be-86-pistol-powder/99086

SIERRA had load Data

Buy powder $47

 

[357Mag]

Hi Everyone,

I am not new to reloading, but fairly new to the .357 Magnum platform and am looking to tap into the wisdom and experience of the group. I have a S&W 686 Performance Center with a 4” barrel and would like to build some loads for it. I’ve tried some ladder loads already, as well as clocked factory loads to use as a benchmark and something to duplicate. See attached PDF chart showing the loads, averages, and extreme spread for each load.

It seems that my target to repeat the various factory loads is ~1180 FPS average velocity with an extreme spread of ~ 100 FPS.

I’ve tried H110, Alliant 2400, and Accurate # 5 thus far.

My issues are as follows:

• Most load manuals and information I’ve found are based on barrel length of at least 6” or more. Accurate information for a 4” barrel is hard to come by.
• Accurate #5 seems to increase in extreme spread as the charge value goes up. (Note – I measure each charge twice before handloading each one) That seems pretty unusual. It also would need to exceed recommended max. charge in order to get near the target of 1180 FPS.
• Alliant 2400 average velocity can reach target velocity, but extreme spread is huge. I suspect it is because the powder does not fill the case.
• H110 was what most recommend for the round, but the velocity patterns do not make any sense. Increasing the charges does not seem to increase the velocity – it just seems to make the fireball of burning gas that escapes from between the cylinder and forcing cone that much bigger – looks like a flame thrower!
• All powders had huge fireballs with each shot. Factory ammo did not by comparison.

I am using Hornady 158 grain XTP bullets, Starline brass, and CCI 550 SP Magnum primers and crimp each round to prevent bullets in the cylinder being jarred around from previous shots.

In my pistol powder inventory, I have the following (but am willing to add new powders if necessary):

• Accurate # 5
• Alliant 2400
• Blue Dot
• H110
• Herco
• HS-6
• Longshot

I am looking to see if anyone has any suggestions for a load, with or without those above powders, that would achieve my target velocity and ES without the huge fireballs out the sides.

Any suggestions or recipes?

Desweep -

Howdy !

I DK whether you have or can source any, but….

An old “ Skeeter Skelton “ load from decades ago, was 8gr SR 4756 under a 158SWC.
It is accurate, albeit a bit sooty; and ( to me ) muzzle flash is much lower than my favorite
.357Mag load of: 14.5hr WW296 and SP mag primer; under a 158gr lead SWC.

I do believe however, that 4756 has been discontinued ? A pity.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[357Mag]

Hi Everyone,

I am not new to reloading, but fairly new to the .357 Magnum platform and am looking to tap into the wisdom and experience of the group. I have a S&W 686 Performance Center with a 4” barrel and would like to build some loads for it. I’ve tried some ladder loads already, as well as clocked factory loads to use as a benchmark and something to duplicate. See attached PDF chart showing the loads, averages, and extreme spread for each load.

It seems that my target to repeat the various factory loads is ~1180 FPS average velocity with an extreme spread of ~ 100 FPS.

I’ve tried H110, Alliant 2400, and Accurate # 5 thus far.

My issues are as follows:

• Most load manuals and information I’ve found are based on barrel length of at least 6” or more. Accurate information for a 4” barrel is hard to come by.
• Accurate #5 seems to increase in extreme spread as the charge value goes up. (Note – I measure each charge twice before handloading each one) That seems pretty unusual. It also would need to exceed recommended max. charge in order to get near the target of 1180 FPS.
• Alliant 2400 average velocity can reach target velocity, but extreme spread is huge. I suspect it is because the powder does not fill the case.
• H110 was what most recommend for the round, but the velocity patterns do not make any sense. Increasing the charges does not seem to increase the velocity – it just seems to make the fireball of burning gas that escapes from between the cylinder and forcing cone that much bigger – looks like a flame thrower!
• All powders had huge fireballs with each shot. Factory ammo did not by comparison.

I am using Hornady 158 grain XTP bullets, Starline brass, and CCI 550 SP Magnum primers and crimp each round to prevent bullets in the cylinder being jarred around from previous shots.

In my pistol powder inventory, I have the following (but am willing to add new powders if necessary):

• Accurate # 5
• Alliant 2400
• Blue Dot
• H110
• Herco
• HS-6
• Longshot

I am looking to see if anyone has any suggestions for a load, with or without those above powders, that would achieve my target velocity and ES without the huge fireballs out the sides.

Any suggestions or recipes?

Dewsweep -

Oops… wrong group pic sent. I’ll try to find a pic of the group I shot w/ SR4766.


Regards,
357Mag

 

[std7mag]

@Dewseep530,

I have a recommendation.
Don't know how you're gonna like it...

Alliant PP300MR.

Yeah, I know. Hard to find!!

But if you do.....