Seating fb .22 cal bullets

[Bogusname]

Is there a magic trick to seating flat base bullets? My needs have never called for such a bullet. It seems to be a pain getting them to sit in there straight. Concentricity sucks too.

 

[jonbearman]

I use a vld tool to help them seat easier. Also your neck tension may make it harder if you use a standard full length die.

 

[CatShooter]

Is there a magic trick to seating flat base bullets? My needs have never called for such a bullet. It seems to be a pain getting them to sit in there straight. Concentricity sucks too.

I use a Lyman "M" die to put a tiny (few thou) flair in the mouth.

The bullet sits there straight and solid. The die is not expensive... ~$18.00

 

[dedogs]

Cat, Is it necessary to crimp after doing that?

 

[CatShooter]

Cat, Is it necessary to crimp after doing that?

Nope... you set the die for a few thou of flair, and you can barely see it - it works even with a tight or no turn neck.

Lyman has hit very hard times, but that is one of their great items.

 

[Bogusname]

Thanks

 

[Bogusname]

CatShooter , long or short .22 m die for .22-250?

 

[LHSmith]

I don't have that problem with in-line seaters like L.E. Wilsons.

 

[Tim Singleton]

I don't have that problem with in-line seaters like L.E. Wilsons.

Wilson work great. Also Hornady seater with the internal sleeve work great

 

[CatShooter]

CatShooter , long or short .22 m die for .22-250?

Short.

 

[jonbearman]

Thanks Catshooter as I wasn't aware of that die from lyman. I use several brands of inline seaters and they all work including the rcbs window style die. But I think the VLD reamer helps a lot.

 

[CatShooter]

Thanks Catshooter as I wasn't aware of that die from lyman. I use several brands of inline seaters and they all work including the rcbs window style die. But I think the VLD reamer helps a lot.

It is a unique die - it was originally designed for lead bullets so the mouth could be flaired to avoid shaving lead.

About 25 years ago, I discovered that if it was adjusted so the expander flair stopped when the belling taper just kissed the mouth, it was great for seating FB bullets and avoided the need for chamfering the mouth.

When you chamfer the mouth, even with the VLD cutting tools, the inner edge will scratch bullet bodies. I would pull bullets from chamfered cases and they looked like hell - the "M" die leaves a clean mouth and does not mark the mouth or scratch the bullets. I get one for each box of dies I get.

 

[chkunz]

Thanks Catshooter as I wasn't aware of that die from lyman. I use several brands of inline seaters and they all work including the rcbs window style die. But I think the VLD reamer helps a lot.

It is a unique die - it was originally designed for lead bullets so the mouth could be flaired to avoid shaving lead.

About 25 years ago, I discovered that if it was adjusted so the expander flair stopped when the belling taper just kissed the mouth, it was great for seating FB bullets and avoided the need for chamfering the mouth.

When you chamfer the mouth, even with the VLD cutting tools, the inner edge will scratch bullet bodies. I would pull bullets from chamfered cases and they looked like hell - the "M" die leaves a clean mouth and does not mark the mouth or scratch the bullets. I get one for each box of dies I get.

This is a great idea. I used the Lyman M die about 100 years ago when I was loading lead bullets but would never have thought of the use that you have adapted it for. I am definitely going to try it.

It is amazing the new tools we have today that we did not have even twenty years ago. Once upon a time I was focused on reducing run out and was looking for an alternative to the expander ball. Bushing dies had not yet come on the market so I had a machinist enlarge the neck on my FL sizing die. Sinclair sold turning mandrels at the time for use in neck turning and I got the idea of using them instead of the expander ball and that worked. Later when I was at Perry Sinclair had their first store on commercial row and I went in and told the guys about another use for their turning mandrels. There was no positive response but I was pleased that some time later they figured it out and started offering expander mandrels. I have lived too long.

 

[chkunz]

This is definitely off the subject and I apologize to the OP but I mentioned run out in my reply above. I once did extensive testing on run out for my M14 in competition at 600 yards. For two years I shot one 10 shot string at 600 yards with straight ammo and one ten shot string with crooked ammo and after two years of data, forty matches, there was only an 80 percent chance that the straight ammo was worth one point over the crooked ammo. So I stopped worrying about it. Now, given the choice between straight ammo and crooked ammo, I will take straight ammo every time. I was shooting Master class scores at 600 at the time so it might have been more significant if I had been shooting High Master scores. I still do my best to produce straight ammo but I no longer worry so much about it. Just because it is not significant in the M14 for a Master class shooter does not mean that it is not significant for a High Master M14 shooter or in bench rest or F-Class but I have not seen anyone present statistically significant data that addresses the question.

 

[searcher]

The RCBS Competition seater die with the window for dropping the bullet in work quite well. It holds the bullet vertical and guides it straight down into the case. A regular chamfer is all that is needed.

 

[BOBC]

Right on Catshooter. I've been using the Lyman M die for over 30 years in the duce and my 308's for FB bullets. Does a real nice job and the loaded rounds are as straight as can be.

Good Shooting..............

 

[Brians356]

Hornady seater with the internal sleeve work great

Ditto the Redding Competition Seater die.

I burnish the case mouth by twisting the case w/ neck end jammed into a small wad of 0000 steel wool. And undersize the neck no more than .002" usually.

 

[jonbearman]

When I use the vld I too use steel wool. But I thank everyone including catshooter and t-rex for teaching me about the M-Die from Lyman. I will have to order 4 of them.

 

[Brians356]

When you chamfer the mouth, even with the VLD cutting tools, the inner edge will scratch bullet bodies. I would pull bullets from chamfered cases and they looked like hell - the "M" die leaves a clean mouth and does not mark the mouth or scratch the bullets.

I spin the case and burnish the case mouth with 0000 steel wool, so it doesn't catch on and scratch the bullets that I have noticed.

But I like this belling idea, as long as it's not lopsided. Using an M-die on a rifle case, what centers and stabilizes the case while it is being belled?

EDIT:

I just read Lyman's die instructions. The neck expander itself centers the case. That seems a bit slipshod, since as soon as it tries to enter the case mouth, it is putting pressure on the case's base against the shell holder. I'm sure it works fine if y'all say it does, not not sure how.

Also, what size does it leave the neck ID (how many thou under bullet diameter)?

 

[CatShooter]

When you chamfer the mouth, even with the VLD cutting tools, the inner edge will scratch bullet bodies. I would pull bullets from chamfered cases and they looked like hell - the "M" die leaves a clean mouth and does not mark the mouth or scratch the bullets.

I spin the case and burnish the case mouth with 0000 steel wool, so it doesn't catch on and scratch the bullets that I have noticed.

But I like this belling idea, as long as it's not lopsided. Using an M-die on a rifle case, what centers and stabilizes the case while it is being belled?

EDIT:

I just read Lyman's die instructions. The neck expander itself centers the case. That seems a bit slipshod, since as soon as it tries to enter the case mouth, it is putting pressure on the case's base against the shell holder. I'm sure it works fine if y'all say it does, not not sure how.

Also, what size does it leave the neck ID (how many thou under bullet diameter)?

The expander has a tiny ramped step (for a lack off a better word). For example, the M die for 224 calibre families has a shaft that is 0.222" and as you raise the case, it slides in (and expands if you use normal OTC sizers without a ball)...

So the case is centered.

Then further up the expander shaft, there is a very tiny ramp that leads to a short section that is ~0.226". By careful adjustment (aka sneekin' up), you can adjust the expander so the mouth just touches the tiny ramp enough so a flat based bullet does not fall over before it goes up in the seater.

I use M dies a lot cuz my main press is a big, 30 pound CH, which has a 17° back tilt and flat based bulets love to fall over...
... But I use M dies on the stuff I load on the RockChucker too.