Seater Dies with bullet loading window?

[PJB89]

Hi. I have a quick question regarding seater dies. I started reloading a few years ago for 308 winchester, using RCBS Match Dies passed down to me from my father. Recently, I picked up a new rifle in 6mm Creedmoor, and began the process of selecting the necessary equipment to load for that as well. I ended up purchasing a Whidden FL Sizer and a Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater die. I'm using a single stage press.

I based my selection mostly off of what some friends recommended, and what seems to be popular among precision shooters these days. I'm not disappointed with what I purchased at all. Both dies work very well, and i'd recommend either of them to others.

However, when compared to the RCBS seater die I own, it seems almost no companies offer the same type of seater as them. The RCBS has the window to place the bullet in as you press the case up into the press. I find this extremely user friendly. It saves me time, etc. etc. I understand I can always just go with what "works for me", but I don't understand why this feature isn't more popular across the board?

I was hoping some of you may have some insight as to why this feature isn't popular? Is it just not what's trendy or in style right now? Has there been issues with this style seater in the past? Do these seaters not possess the same tolerances as others? Please excuse my ignorance if I am asking a dumb question, but my experience is limited, and I was hoping someone might be able to shed some light on this for me. Is there a reason most die producers don't make something like this?

Thanks all in advance for your time in reading and/or answering. Glad to be here on the forum.

-Paul

 

[Bill K]

Probably due to the extra milling on the die body in production.

 

[PopCharlie]

My only experience is with a Vickerman seater. It has an opening to please the bullet in as the case is raised into the die. I found it to be very sloppy. I could not get it to seat a bullet straight. So I quit using it. I have used Redding, Forster, Whidden, and now L. E. Wilson seaters. They all work well. Wilson die and arbor press is the most accurate in terms of seating depth and runout.

PopCharlie

 

[jepp2]

but I don't understand why this feature isn't more popular across the board?

With most things in life there is no free lunch. I don't have any of the RCBS dies with the window (not a priority with me), but I would be interested in seeing what the bullet runout is with your die. I settled on Redding Competition seaters after having failures with Forster best seating dies, and not wanting to go to an inline using an arbor press. And even with the Redding die, my runout is less than impressive.

 

[243Lapua]

Never tried RCBS. Have been using Redding competition for years. And now switched to Wilson dies with a Arbor Press and what a difference and simplicity.

 

[chkunz]

I bought the first edition of the RCBS die you describe when it first came out in the early 1980s. I really liked it and have been using that model RCBS die for my bullet seating ever since. I thought it was such a great design that other brands would bring out their version but that did not happen as far as I remember.

There was a knock on the RCBS design at one time when bullet run out was all the rage but I did a lot of testing on bullet run out and even wrote an article in precision shooting magazine on my findings. As I remember, without going back and looking at my data, there was no significant difference in run out with the "window" die vs. the standard configuration. Furthermore I did extensive research on bullet run out for the M14 accuracy at 600 yards for straight vs. crooked ammo at 600 yards and there was no stastical difference in the two so I quit being concerned about run out and enjoyed the RCBS bullet seating die with the window.

 

[Idaho-45]

A few years back, I purchased one of those RCBS dies for my 17 Fireball. It works great for those tiny bullets!!!!!! Thought about getting others but, for some reason, I've not done it.

 

[Zero333]

The bullet window in the RCBS comp. die's is EXTREMELY beneficial when loading little 17, 20 and 22 cal bullets. Especially the flat base ones.

And even more so beneficial if you're lucky enough to have Sausage Fingers !

 

[BoydAllen]

I have several different styles of seating dies, and several concentricity gauges. The RCBS "window" dies produce erratic concentricity results that are overall inferior to what you would expect from the Forster seater or an arbor press type seater. Do you own a concentricity gauge?

 

[chkunz]

I have several different styles of seating dies, and several concentricity gauges. The RCBS "window" dies produce erratic concentricity results that are overall inferior to what you would expect from the Forster seater or an arbor press type seater. Do you own a concentricity gauge?

Yes, I own a concentricity gage and have done the testing both on run out and what it meant on the target. See my reply #6 above.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I use nothing buy the RCBS (window) Competition seater dies. Saved smashing my fingers more than once. Works great when you start seating smaller caliber bullets. I'll find use seaters and swap innards to get to the caliber I'am working with. RCBS had always been there to help. I'll call for parts and their first question is "are you changing calibers"? Parts are always available at "NO CHARGE" no matter how hard I try to pay my way.
As far a run out or concentricity, never saw the need to check. My targets tell me all is well in the accuracy department.

 

[DJB]

I have about 5 of the RCBS bullet seater window dies. All had bad runout. The seater dies were used for reloading for prairie dogs. I did some checking and Ponsness Warren made seater dies with the window and were far better with a lot less run out. DJB

 

[chkunz]

I use nothing buy the RCBS (window) Competition seater dies. Saved smashing my fingers more than once. Works great when you start seating smaller caliber bullets. I'll find use seaters and swap innards to get to the caliber I'am working with. RCBS had always been there to help. I'll call for parts and their first question is "are you changing calibers"? Parts are always available at "NO CHARGE" no matter how hard I try to pay my way.
As far a run out or concentricity, never saw the need to check. My targets tell me all is well in the accuracy department.

I did the run out vs accuracy testing and after that I never worried about run out again. If I have a choice between straight ammo and crooked ammo, I will take straight ammo but I now know that it does not matter for my application.

 

[JFrank]

I did the run out vs accuracy testing and after that I never worried about run out again. If I have a choice between straight ammo and crooked ammo, I will take straight ammo but I now know that it does not matter for my application.

Shhhhh
Don’t tell the 6.5 guys it’s more fun watching / them with the little gizmos gettin all into the Art of consentricity and how vitality important it is.
Just messin guy’s

 

[chkunz]

Shhhhh
Don’t tell the 6.5 guys it’s more fun watching / them with the little gizmos gettin all into the Art of consentricity and how vitality important it is.

I know, it is heresy to say that it does not matter but have you ever seen data that shows what it is worth? One year I shot twenty two 600 yard stages of the National Match Course with the M14. I would shoot one ten shot string with straight ammo and one ten shot string with crooked ammo. I was shooting master class scores. At the end of the year I did the statistical analysis and got a high confidence level that there was no statistically significant difference in the straight ammo vs the crooked ammo.

 

[TrxR]

I got so i like the Wilson arbor press dies. Slide the case in from the bottom the drop the bullet in from the top then push the seating stem assembly in.

 

[NorCalMikie]

So IMHO, it boils down to what works best for YOU and YOU'R application.
Got a shooting buddy that keep records of EVERY shot he's ever made.
While he writing down his notes, I'll be burning off another 200 rounds from my M1A. Love him no matter what.

 

[BoydAllen]

I got so i like the Wilson arbor press dies. Slide the case in from the bottom the drop the bullet in from the top then push the seating stem assembly in.

Of course you get to decide how you use your tools, but Wilson does not recommend using them that way. Many of us do it the way that it turns out that they recommend. Stack the bullet onto the case, holding it so that your thumb and finger overlap the bullet and the case neck, and slide the die down over.

 

[Fotheringill]

I have both the RCBS Comp die and the Redding Comp die. I found the Redding to be better at concentricity than the RCBS.

 

[chkunz]

I have both the RCBS Comp die and the Redding Comp die. I found the Redding to be better at concentricity than the RCBS.

I did concentricity testing on both of these dies (and some other brands also) and found like you did that the Redding has less run out but then after I did the accuracy testing I decided that it did not matter. Even so, I use the Redding for the long range application.

For what it is worth, there were other things that that I found that influenced run out besides just the dies; the press, O ring under the die, seat-rotate-seat, expander ball vs mandrel, etc.