SD/ES Problems

[SpencerC]

Actually, the fastest shots would impact high and slow shots would go low FWIW.

Have you seen a difference in ES/SD when playing with seating depth as well? I chronied 2 of the same loads but one with .020" jump and one with .010" jump and the .010 showed slightly better numbers. I have heard that a lot of jam can help reduce ES/SD, is that true?

 

[15Tango]

I've had a difficult time getting my 6.5CM to shoot R17 with an ES much smaller than 25 but I was going for all out velocity getting 3250 with a 123. I finally tried some IMR 8208 with some 123s way down to 2900 FPS and I was getting single digit ES - nothing changed about the load but the powder and velocity. I was running the 123s up to 3250 to try and cheat some wind but maybe I don't need a 123 doing 3250 after all and I need to work on my wind reading abilities instead.

Doing that little experiment really helped my confidence because I was about to give up on that cartridge and rifle - it was my only rifle I couldn't get single digit ES with and it was frustrating me greatly.

Good luck and thanks for all the input from everybody and to the other Wayne for starting this interesting thread.

Wayne

 

[GermanS1]

"...but maybe I don't need a 123 doing 3250 after all and I need to work on my wind reading abilities instead."

Wayne, truer words were never spoken, I wish more people could figure that out! Congratulations, you're on the road to better shooting. You might consider some slightly slower powders also, to hit the same 2900 range with abit more case fill and lower pressure.

 

[15Tango]

German,

Thank you! I have some loads written down using R15 for that exact reason - I just have to load them and see what they do next. Reloder 15 has been marvelous for me with .223 and 6.5 Grendel so I'm hoping it'll do the same with the 6.5CM. If that doesn't work I'll go for BLC-2 or maybe 4350 since that's what that cartridge was meant to be shot with.

I tried resetting my FLS sizing die to set the shoulder back yesterday as well, it's about .010" higher from the shell holder than it was for a full 'bump over' sizing now and the closing of the bolt's quite easy, I still feel just a little bit of drag on the final 1/2" of forward movement of the bolt so I think it's about right.

Thanks again for the help!

Wayne

 

[camac]

German, Wayne -I agree here too.

I like thinking of it this way. -Our F Class open 10 ring is 0.5moa (like your x I think). however at the bottom and top of the 10 ring it is (obviously) narrower than the middle. If you can hold the middle band by having less than 0.25moa vertical then you are in the "meat" of the 10 and will have far more high scoring shots. If you take a close look at the 0.5moa ring and imagine horizontal lines drawn through it at 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 and finally 0.5moa vertical spread you soon see that around 0.25-0.3 is the critical area where you start to quickly lose horizontal advantage. Same can be said for the next ring out (our 9 or MOA ring) if you hold under 0.5moa for that ring then you are in the meat of that scoring too.

What this means is you have a lot more room to judge the wind with. Give me 2900 and 0.25 vertical any day over 3200 and 0.5moa.

 

[bozo699]

Hey Guy's,
Thanks for all the help,I have been reading new posts as they appear but havn't had time to reply.First of all German,Wayne,Camac,and all others thanks,I probably shouldn't have started the thread as I was tired and flustrated but in the long run I am glad I did.I read the material you provided for me and the posts you have wrote and it's helped alot. The next day I went down to the loading room/range,and my 16 year old son and I started in with the savage. started out real bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He acidently spilled a whole pound of 4831 sc on the dirty floor ??? That left me with a 8 lb. can of reg. 4831-Blessing in dissquise. I started shooting and things were about the same then remembered what I had been reading Duh!! I was just to the lands so I went .020 into the lands,worse so I went .020 off the lands BIG improvement!! then I went from .002 neck tension to .001 another big improvement I ended up by the end of the day with Lapua 6.5*284 brass br-2 primers 52.5 gr.of h4831 139 lapua scenars seated .014 off the lands @2982 fps-Sd of 4.7 and Es of 11.8. I am very happy (so is my son)I have this taken care of, thanks to all of you.I may fiddle with it a little more some day when it stops blowing But for now I am on the target @ 1000 yards and am enjoying the rifle.As soon as my 40 deg cutter comes I will try turning some of the necks.Thats all for now!
Wayne. (BOZO)

 

[Kenny474]

Wayne, I am glad to hear you got it shooting well. Now go enjoy it!

Kenny

 

[GermanS1]

Great news, Wayne - thanks for the update!

 

[bozo699]

Fella's
A update,I took my new factory savage 6.5*284 f class to Missula Montana this weekend for the chamionship 1000 yd br shoot it was a great weekend I learned a lot, some world class shooters there,and just a great bunch of guys and gals in general. I won Heavy gun score on last day with a 96. It was very windy,my group wasn't great I had them going into 5.5" then a flyer 13.2" wish they had been plotting I would toss that piece of brass. Anyways thanks again for ALL your help and usefull sugestions on sd/es I can't wait for next year to head back to Montana.
Wayne.

 

[camac]

Thats great news Wayne, Glad we could help. Great also to see a factory savage doing those groups. a 13 inch flyer is nothing at 1000 yards especially if it is horizontal (2mph wind change!) or vertical even (change of wind direction or slight velocity change etc). 1000 yards is unforgiving and your 5.5 inch 9 shot group is world class.