Is there an unbiased scientific comparison of scopes. I am not looking for opinion, just cold facts. Light transmission, weight, clarity. It seems that companies would also want this.
Scope Comparison
- Thread starter Brad Perot
- Start date
I can't believe nobody else said anything but go to Precision Rifle Blog and Cal does a very comprehensive tests on some higher end scopes. Great test that was needed greatly in the industry IMO.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
We've been down this road before and it's an exercise in futility. A scope comparison is only good for one day. Scope manufacturers are constantly upgrading, changing glass, reticles, introducing new models and discontinuing others. It's the nature of the beast in the consumer product market. Testing one scope against the other? What if Brand X is the one out of a thousand that fails a turret test and Brand Y is discontinued a day later? What good is the comparison?
Compare Brand X to Brand Y in 2017 and in 2018, both scopes models are different.
From my perspective, the best way to get a recommendation is to ask those who recently bought the product and get their experiences or shoot with one.
Compare Brand X to Brand Y in 2017 and in 2018, both scopes models are different.
From my perspective, the best way to get a recommendation is to ask those who recently bought the product and get their experiences or shoot with one.
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
No 2 pair of eyes are the same, so what looks excellent through one users eyes isn't the same to another persons eyes.
And there is Bias as well, It's very apparent in some posts, guys who just don't like a certain brand.
And we've had scope-check tests done which is useful information to some degree.
I could tell you what I like and there would be a barrage of posts countering the brand(s) that I recommend -
If your planning to spend some serious cash on a scope, take the time to do some research and if possible LOOK through some of those that you are considering. - Make up Your mind as to what scope best fits your Eyes & shooting application.
And there is Bias as well, It's very apparent in some posts, guys who just don't like a certain brand.
And we've had scope-check tests done which is useful information to some degree.
I could tell you what I like and there would be a barrage of posts countering the brand(s) that I recommend -
If your planning to spend some serious cash on a scope, take the time to do some research and if possible LOOK through some of those that you are considering. - Make up Your mind as to what scope best fits your Eyes & shooting application.
Welcome to the forum.
Your question is an interesting one and you've read above why people would not want to participate in such a comparison.
However, that said, I did read an article about such a comparison in a German magazine about 12 years ago. I translated it (that we before we had decent translation software,) in posted the English version somewhere.
The magazine was on-line, what used to be called an e-zine and it was replete with charts, graphs and pictures. Essentially, the magazine had gathered about 12 different scopes ranging from S&B, NF, Swaro, Kahles, Doctor, Leupold, Nikon and many others and they measured things like light transmission (day and night,) resolution, etc, and then went into dunking them in water, freezing them and so on. This testing was done at an optical facility, I think it was even at S&B. The scopes ranged from the multi-kilobucks for the Kahles and S&B down to a few hundreds for the Nikon Monarch.
The article had caught my eye because I was (and still am,) the owner of the exact Nikon Model they tested; a 6.5-20X44. Don't look for one, it was archived (as they say,) long ago.
The optical testing shocked the magazine when they discovered that the Nikon had better light transmission than all the other scopes. Nikon knows a thing or two about lens coatings, what with being a long-time pioneer in lens technology, especially with coatings and ED glass.
The S&B was not far behind, but at it cost 8X times as much you would hope it was not too far behind. When it came to conditions and surviving the torture tests, that's when money spoke. Now the Nikon did pass all the tests but it had issues in the cold when it became quite stiff and difficult to adjust. The S&B and a few others did not freeze up and the knobs remained easy to move. A few scopes actually died and could not complete the tests.
One issue that was surprising was how bad the light transmission figures were for the Nightforce. But as was stated earlier, things change from year to year and model to model and where one scope was weak one year/model, it can be strong in another year/model.
I always take umbrage with scope comparison done outside of a lab. You cannot measure light transmission with the mark 1 eyeball; your eye will not know to see the difference between 94% transmission and 89%. What you will be able to see is the difference between say a 3-9X36 and a 3-9X44 both set a 9X at 7:30PM on December 1st looking at a rock in the woods, if the scopes are side by side and you can look through both of them the exact same way.
Scopes are very subjective and it's very difficult to compare how they appear to each person's eyes without using them quite a bit. You eye gets accustomed to looking through your scope, so looking through some other scope is not a fair comparison, even when you remember to set them at the exact same settings.
When people rave about glass and brightness of their scopes, it's all meaningless; it's what people are used to looking through.
On the other hand there have been discussions about testing scopes to see if the reticle moves, and so on and those aspects can be measured and repeated by others. This is not subjective data, this is empirical data. Moving knobs, pushing the power lever, adjusting the side focus, again those are things that can be compared.
When the time comes to choose a scope, the first stop if the specification sheet. You need to know what your use of the scope is, what magnification range you need, what size exit pupil you will require and what kind of reticle you desire. Let's not forget what kind of money you're comfortable spending on this item.
I disagree. I have looked through many scopes, so I have a pretty good data base for comparison.
Another thing that is worth mentioning is that recent scope testing shows flaws that none of the tests that you mention did...how well a scope holds its point of aim. For pretty much all target shooting applications this is more important than many if not all of the other qualities. This sort of testing, using a frozen scope for comparison, and actual rifle recoil to shake the scope, did not originate in some lab, or with a manufacturer.
Even if you are concerned about low light performance, tests can be done by individuals by looking through different scopes in the same conditions.
Perhaps 30 years back I built a scope comparison rack that put five different 36X scopes side by side on a single mount that was put on a table at a range so that a person could sit comfortably, adjust all the scopes to his eye, and look at the same target. The mounts were adjusted to point at a single point at target distance with adjustable rings. The whole setup was taken to a local benchrest match and shooters were able to make all the observations that they wanted to. Of course all that could be compared was subjective image quality, but even so, the results were interesting.
Over the years I have done other comparisons, and while they were not as elaborate as what a lab test might be, the results were in fact useful to me.
Bottom line, lacking the resources to do elaborate tests most of us do the best that we can with what we have, and may in fact be able to learn things from our own tests that are quite useful.
Another thing that is worth mentioning is that recent scope testing shows flaws that none of the tests that you mention did...how well a scope holds its point of aim. For pretty much all target shooting applications this is more important than many if not all of the other qualities. This sort of testing, using a frozen scope for comparison, and actual rifle recoil to shake the scope, did not originate in some lab, or with a manufacturer.
Even if you are concerned about low light performance, tests can be done by individuals by looking through different scopes in the same conditions.
Perhaps 30 years back I built a scope comparison rack that put five different 36X scopes side by side on a single mount that was put on a table at a range so that a person could sit comfortably, adjust all the scopes to his eye, and look at the same target. The mounts were adjusted to point at a single point at target distance with adjustable rings. The whole setup was taken to a local benchrest match and shooters were able to make all the observations that they wanted to. Of course all that could be compared was subjective image quality, but even so, the results were interesting.
Over the years I have done other comparisons, and while they were not as elaborate as what a lab test might be, the results were in fact useful to me.
Bottom line, lacking the resources to do elaborate tests most of us do the best that we can with what we have, and may in fact be able to learn things from our own tests that are quite useful.
To what end? You wanna know whats the best? There is no perfect scope. The sooner you realize that, the better off you will be. Figure out where you are willing to compromise. Figure out how much cash you got. Buy what you want and decide if you like it.
You also left out the more important feature of any scope; tracking and repeatability. If a scope doesn't track, it's worth less than nothing, no matter how good the glass is. You want opinion? I have owned and shot a lot of very highend scopes (FFP). Our local crew has owned and used damn near every highend scope out there. We have compared a lot. We have witnessed failures. We have dealt with repairs and returns. All of this is subjective and opinion.
Not sure if your truly interested or just trolling us.
Then there's the unit per unit variances among the same brand and model of scope. Over the years I tended to find a scope I liked and bought more of them to stay with the same feature set.
I've seen differences in the quality of the glass, feel of controls, the turret marks lining up on some but not others, and tracking too.
To do a proper test you'd have to have enough units of each brand and model in case one scope was a good example or one had something not so good about it.
Besides all that was mentioned, there's just some things that are the intangibles that an individual may either dislike or prefer. For instance I'm picky about feature sets and reticles so most scopes that are acceptable to most shooters would not do it for me and my purposes. In other words I'll accept a lessor scope to get the features I want thus compromising quality as long as the scope functions well.
I've seen differences in the quality of the glass, feel of controls, the turret marks lining up on some but not others, and tracking too.
To do a proper test you'd have to have enough units of each brand and model in case one scope was a good example or one had something not so good about it.
Besides all that was mentioned, there's just some things that are the intangibles that an individual may either dislike or prefer. For instance I'm picky about feature sets and reticles so most scopes that are acceptable to most shooters would not do it for me and my purposes. In other words I'll accept a lessor scope to get the features I want thus compromising quality as long as the scope functions well.
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