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School me on making resizing dies

miningshawn

miningshawn

I am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on my wildcat.

I ordered a rougher, a finisher, a go guage, and a solid pilot resizer die from Manson. I have never made a die.

I emailed Whidden and had a reply in minutes that they could make me a set of dies if I sent the prints. I gave a quick call and found that they can easily accommodate my request - in like 14-18 weeks.

I'm so sick of waiting. Because of shipping, wait times, revisions, and so on this project is now in it's 18th month and I really want to get going. I actually have 2 rifles built and they have fired an aggregate of 2 rounds to fire form chambers (which are seeing the final change). I see that Newlon has a really good reputation on this board and I am debating whether I should order Newlon blanks and make some dies, order from Whidden, or do both.

How much of a process is it to machine the Newlon dies? If you have experience in this arena I would love to hear about it. Any tips or tricks are appreciated.

(reamer print attached for the curious!)
TIA
Boats
 

Attachments

I read an article about this several years back, What I can recall of it said that the reamer for the die has to have all critical dimensions reduced by .002". This to allow for a small amount of brass spring back and still be small enough to chamber in your rifle. Then there is heat treating and internal polishing, expansion of the metal because of the heat treating needs to be factored as does how much reduction will you have with the polishing.
 
When I had Hornady make my first wildcat die I asked a bunch of questions and two things that stuck out were the heat treatment and Lonnie bragged about the quality of the internal surface finish.

That being said, my head and wallet tells me to let the experienced make the die. However, there’s an opportunity for a learning opportunity here so, since you already have the resizer, why not attempt to cut a FL die.

Thus, my vote is to do both.
 
miningshawn said:
Because of shipping, wait times, revisions, and so on this project is now in it's 18th month and I really want to get going.
Click to expand...

This is the usual time frame for bringing a wildcat to life and getting all the various pieces pulled together when you lack the knowledge and experience.

Everyone is busy these days and most individuals don't have the pull to jump to the head of the line just because they're in a hurry.

miningshawn said:
I ordered a rougher, a finisher, a go guage, and a solid pilot resizer die from Manson. I have never made a die.
Click to expand...

Do you have a metal lathe and have you had the training to use it to turn metal concentrically and cut threads?

If yes, great! Carry on.

If no, throw in the towel now and hire someone with the experience to make your dies. This is not the project to cut your teeth on to learn how to run a lathe and cut threads.


I make a lot of my own dies not only for your reason (waiting) but because I can make any variations I need by simply heading back to the lathe. But...

Occasionally, I'll call Alan Warner to make a single die or set for me. Yes it's expensive but the design is superb:

https://www.warner-tool.com/reloading-dies/


Many gunsmiths nowadays will make dies for you also but generally when making a rifle for you.

You can get die blanks for making hand dies or threaded dies, leaving the resizing portion to you. Polish and send out for hardening.

There are several alternatives and your experience will dictate the best choices.

Enjoy the process!:)
 
Iirc, we had a book w the growth characteristics after heat treat of a myriad of metals. Stentor was the name on the book. The purveyor of the diff metal flavors.

By the time you get a sized neck reamer, tool up to cut everything to a -.0002 + .0, maybe buy a new blank bc of an "OOPS", learn to polish, be able to measure ID to tenths, say .0001........PAY THE MAN that does it every day, all day w ALL the tooling and measuring kit he needs. JMHO as a retired toolmaker.
Best to you w whatever you decide.
 
Are you wanting to make a bushing-style f.l. die? And what die are you now using to shorten the cases pror to f-forming? -Al
 
Last edited:
Ok, update.

I called Newlon and I decided to go all-in. I picked up pretty much two of everything, that way I have one to screw up and one to do right.

I learned a ton on the one phone call, and would feel comfortable calling again before I hit the "on" switch. I also learned a ton about dies that I didn't already know.

It is a pleasure to have a vendor that wants to know about your project, takes the time to give you a recommendation, then helps you get what you need.

I'm really looking forward to this! I will document and picture this entire process and hopefully remember to follow this thread up in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the input!
 
miningshawn said:
I am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on my wildcat.

I ordered a rougher, a finisher, a go guage, and a solid pilot resizer die from Manson. I have never made a die.

I emailed Whidden and had a reply in minutes that they could make me a set of dies if I sent the prints. I gave a quick call and found that they can easily accommodate my request - in like 14-18 weeks.

I'm so sick of waiting. Because of shipping, wait times, revisions, and so on this project is now in it's 18th month and I really want to get going. I actually have 2 rifles built and they have fired an aggregate of 2 rounds to fire form chambers (which are seeing the final change). I see that Newlon has a really good reputation on this board and I am debating whether I should order Newlon blanks and make some dies, order from Whidden, or do both.

How much of a process is it to machine the Newlon dies? If you have experience in this arena I would love to hear about it. Any tips or tricks are appreciated.

(reamer print attached for the curious!)
TIA
Boats
Click to expand...
thanks for this thread- im looking forward to your posts
 
miningshawn said:
Ok, update.

I called Newlon and I decided to go all-in. I picked up pretty much two of everything, that way I have one to screw up and one to do right.

I learned a ton on the one phone call, and would feel comfortable calling again before I hit the "on" switch. I also learned a ton about dies that I didn't already know.

It is a pleasure to have a vendor that wants to know about your project, takes the time to give you a recommendation, then helps you get what you need.

I'm really looking forward to this! I will document and picture this entire process and hopefully remember to follow this thread up in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the input!
Click to expand...
out of curiosity - are the blanks you receive already heat-treated, or do you do that yourself after machining?

If it's already heat-treated, then wouldn't it be a cheaper option to buy an off-the shelf body die of a caliber that is slightly smaller in dimension than your wildcat which you can then just ream out? Apologies if this is bonkers - I'm genuinely just curious (and lazy - so I always try the easiest, cheapest and fastest route - even if it usually turns out to be a complete waste of time and money :) )
 
I am of the opinion that "you ain't gonna ream" iffin it has been hardened.
Even if dead soft, the only straight walled area is the neck. Those pesky tapers for the case body are rascal$.
 
piie said:
out of curiosity - are the blanks you receive already heat-treated, or do you do that yourself after machining?

If it's already heat-treated, then wouldn't it be a cheaper option to buy an off-the shelf body die of a caliber that is slightly smaller in dimension than your wildcat which you can then just ream out? Apologies if this is bonkers - I'm genuinely just curious (and lazy - so I always try the easiest, cheapest and fastest route - even if it usually turns out to be a complete waste of time and money :) )
Click to expand...
After talking with Newlon,

He said that the blanks are typically used without treatment at all post-machining. The folks that want to harden nowadays have almost exclusively turned to Melonite treatment - it's the difference between 2000 degrees and 800 degrees. Sometimes (but not every time) the traditional hardening process altered the die.

To create an initial casing\dummy round I trimmed a .308, a .260, and a .257 Ackley - all taken from the bottom, all RCBS factory dies. They were as hard as woodpecker lips. I don't think that I would have had any success trying to remove taper and shoulder.

I am choosing not to harden until\unless I see a problem.

Good thinking, though!
 
Update today, the reamers have arrived!
I want to get started on this but have run into a snag. I can't seem to get a barrel. I have had 2 barrel manufacturers flake out on me in 6 months after being told 16 weeks. I am waiting and still searching for a barrel. I have the action, the trigger, and the chassis is (supposedly) close to shipping. As soon as I get at least one barrel I will be starting the process, even if I have to strip a chassis from another rifle.
I have two body dies, two bushing sizing dies, and a seater. So far the process will start with chambering the barrel and getting some cases fire-formed. After I have 5, I will be using the same reamers and dimensions on the body dies. If successful I will move onto the sizing and seater dies. I am really hoping that the first tries are good, and if they are I will be sending out one each of the body and sizing dies for Melonite.
Just waiting on a 26" .25 in 1:7....
 
I'm following this with great interest.
Right now is a bad time to be in a hurry when ordering anything.
My 12 week wait on a barrel is now 17-18 weeks.
New barrel orders are at least 20 weeks, with some being much longer.

My wildcat design could use "standard" dies with the exception of shoulder angle.

My issue is with the case itself. Parent case is expensive, and not made to withstand modern pressures. 46,000 psi vs 60,000 psi.
 
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