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Savage target action: GreTan blueprint vs. Sharp Shooter Supply Time&True

I am looking into getting some work done with my Savage target action and have been looking around. I have talked to Greg from GreTan and I plan on getting my firing pin bushed pretty soon.

I have heard good things about having SSS time a true actions but what are the differances compared to having GreTan blueprint my action.

What i understand from Greg is that i would need a new barrel after his work, i havent heard anything like that with the time and true.

Just looking for some experiences and to hear about the differances between the smithwork. Thanks.
 
Rock Knocker

Search on this site for SSS. They do very good work, but there customer service is not the best. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3759724.msg35924011.html#msg35924011

Check out Kevin Rayhill also http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/testimonials.html

Mark Schronce
 
Greg is going to recut the threads oversized and concentric with the bolt race way, that is why it won't fit a factory barrel. Your next barrel would need to be custom fit to the action.

I have opened up small shank threads to large shank so the customer who orders pre-fits can still instal his own barrels.

Opening up the large shank will basically mean no more pre-fits.

truing a savage is not a difficult operation, most rifle builders can do it. I offer truing with or with- out thread recutting, so that the "home smith" can still instal pre-fits if so desired.

Freds action timing, involves a proprietary way of ramping the lug abutment ramps in the reciever for smother operation among other things. I have done my own savage actions to smoth them up where I basically re-ramp the cocking cam, and adjust the thickness of the primary extraction cam washer, among some other minor things.
 
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greg is known for his truing of remingtons, which is quite an extensive process that involves installing concentric cams at the front and back of the bolt. I have had him do 2 remingtons for me this way. IMO I don't think I would do it again I would rather spend the money on a custom action, because after all the truing greg does the costs are about the same.

the savage has a floating bolt head so I don't think truing it in the same manner that greg does on a remington is going to be the way to go. heck a savage may not really benefit from truing. I personally would get the tools to change barrels, and add a custom barrel to a savage myself. if it doesn't shoot the way you want, get another barrel, its only a $300 mistake when you do it yourself as opposed to a 6or 700 one after you have paid a gunsmith to fit and chamber say a remington barrel. there are also guys that have a setup to add a barrel nut to a remington so barrels are real easy to change.
 
Jim See said:
I have opened up small shank threads to large shank so the customer who orders pre-fits can still instal his own barrels.

Jim,

Someone mentioned that procedure to me this weekend, which is of some interest to me as most of my guns are large shank actions, with a few exceptions. Not being able to swap any given barrel to any given action is an aggravation, to say the least.

Some gunsmiths seem hesitant to cut into the receiver that far, citing that it would be past the factory surface hardening.

What are your thoughts on that?

Monte
 
Old military mausers were surface hardened, all modern actions that I'm aware of are heat treated/hardened through out.

This is the trueing that I do to 95% of all savages I rebarrel weather they keep the nut or lose it.

Action truing of Savage (minus thread re-cut) . . . . . . $95.00
(includes single point recuting of action face, lug abutments, and bolt face, lugs abrasive lapped. (indicated to within .0002" on bolt raceway.))
 
Rock Knocker said:
I am looking into getting some work done with my Savage target action and have been looking around. I have talked to Greg from GreTan and I plan on getting my firing pin bushed pretty soon.

I have heard good things about having SSS time a true actions but what are the differences compared to having GreTan blueprint my action.

What i understand from Greg is that i would need a new barrel after his work, i haven't heard anything like that with the time and true.

Just looking for some experiences and to hear about the differences between the smithwork.

Greg bushed a firing pin for me and it was a very quick turnaround.

Fred Moreo at SSS trued and timed a rifle for me and did an excellent job and the price was very reasonable.

HOWEVER, it took forever. Lisa consistently over promises and under delivers. I personally had to speak to Fred to get the job moved along.
 
Jim See said:
Old military mausers were surface hardened, all modern actions that I'm aware of are heat treated/hardened through out.

I was kind of wondering about that... I happened to tour the Savage factory about a year and a half ago, and saw the stage where the actions get heat-treated... pretty much the whole thing is done as one. I didn't see how there would be 'surface' hardening given the way it looked like the whole action came out cherry red... but not being a metallurgical type I wasn't sure enough to argue with them.
 
I am quite terrified of poor costomer service and would dread an on going due date.

Thanks to this I will hopefully have avoided that, and found good people to do business with.
 
I have three actions timed & trued by SSS. All the good things said are true (one came back with the smoothest and lightest bolt lift of any action I've fondled, for example), and all the bad things too (takes way longer than promised, takes a substantial amount of your money up front) :-\ Another smith that T&T's Savages is Kevin Rayhill of Stockade Gunstocks. He used to be affiliated with SSS, from what I gather (many of their stocks are very similar, SSS's are laminate, Stockades are composite).
 
If your young enough and have a good pair of boots a custom Rayhill Stockade action is sweet but his calendar is different than most folks and when he says 3 months it can mean a year or more from experience.... I doubt SSS could possibly be any slower and his work is every bit as good and you can't beat that 2 oz. trigger job he does.
 
Im plenty young and boots arent a problem. But im plenty young and aside from some hunting guns and a 223 AR this is my only rifle for long range shooting and i dont want to take a year off just for a smoother action.

Maybe i should start puting together another rifle and send this one out when the new ones done 8) .... In my dreams
 
I had Fred at SSS time and true and install Evo triggers in two of my Savage Model 12s. Very satisfied with the work. Does take months, but well worth it.

Chip
 
Usually SSS is pretty good (or at least has been) about putting you on the list for action work, etc., and letting you know when its time to send yours in (a week or two in advance). At least for me, thats cut the actual time without gun in hand to a minimum. Still not wild about the charge-up-front policy, though.
 
in2deep said:
If your young enough and have a good pair of boots a custom Rayhill Stockade action is sweet but his calendar is different than most folks and when he says 3 months it can mean a year or more from experience.... I doubt SSS could possibly be any slower and his work is every bit as good and you can't beat that 2 oz. trigger job he does.

Interesting as I literally just received a rifle back from Kevin Rayhill. I sent him an action and reamer & received a complete rifle back in 8 weeks. I was told stocks were running about 14 weeks when I sent it in.

About three years ago, I sent him a short action and received a complete rifle back in 5 weeks.

Both rifles are sporting his long-range benchrest stocks with the actions bedded to them. Both have Benchmark barrels, the one I just received I had him install a muzzlebrake on as well. As this last action was built in 1965 and had that old style bolt with the donut around the front of the bolt head, I had him build me a new bolt as well amongst other things.

Turnaround time hasn't been an issue with him for me.

-Rick
 
Rick your killing me I must have bad luck....I ordered mine 3-15-10 and still wasn't done by 1-28-11. Heck when I sent the warped stock back for repair he said 6 weeks or so and he would rush it and when I called a couple months later the mold still had to be redone and I just couldn't take it any more. They have an odd policy that will put other orders in front of existing orders if they add an extra $100. for pimpin money and that can add extensive delays also lest you pony up...
Just not my cup of tea but other people tolerate it and hold their nose and have good luck but honestly I'd rather shoot a BB gun than be treated that way.
 
I am looking into getting some work done with my Savage target action and have been looking around. I have talked to Greg from GreTan and I plan on getting my firing pin bushed pretty soon.

I have heard good things about having SSS time a true actions but what are the differances compared to having GreTan blueprint my action.

What i understand from Greg is that i would need a new barrel after his work, i havent heard anything like that with the time and true.

Just looking for some experiences and to hear about the differances between the smithwork. Thanks.
Maybe I have just been lucky but I have 2 savages, a 22-250 built on a target action and a .308 built on model 11 trophy hunter. Both I did nothing more that select shilen match barrels, precision lugs and nuts and stocks that would hold bull barrels and both are same hole drivers at 200 yards... I did nothing as far as true up or tuning action... I would just start with a hi quality match barrel and I bet you will be amazed... just mho
 
Maybe I have just been lucky but I have 2 savages, a 22-250 built on a target action and a .308 built on model 11 trophy hunter. Both I did nothing more that select shilen match barrels, precision lugs and nuts and stocks that would hold bull barrels and both are same hole drivers at 200 yards... I did nothing as far as true up or tuning action... I would just start with a hi quality match barrel and I bet you will be amazed... just mho

Same experience here. I re-barreled a Savage 223 with a Shilen Select and could not be happier. Shooting it at 100 is a waste of time. Just one hole.
 
I had 2 done by Fred years ago. they work nice...more recently poor customer service won't go back there if I don't have to...Rayhill offered to do my work and put my work in front of others for more $$$ i won't go there ever...IF i need Savage work done I'll attempt to have Nat Lambert do mine...just my $0.02 FWIW
 
I was kind of wondering about that... I happened to tour the Savage factory about a year and a half ago, and saw the stage where the actions get heat-treated... pretty much the whole thing is done as one. I didn't see how there would be 'surface' hardening given the way it looked like the whole action came out cherry red... but not being a metallurgical type I wasn't sure enough to argue with them.

Heat treating is, or at least can be, a complicated process. I have no idea how Savage, or any other gun maker, heat treats their action. But the fact that the pieces come out of the oven glowing red in no way indicates that there can't be surface hardening.

In it's most simple form, steel is iron alloyed with a little bit of carbon, usually not very much; around 1/4% but it can be more. Of course, there are all sorts of other metals that can be added to give just the desired properties like corrosion resistance to mention one example. Often times a steel product needs to be "tough", which is to say it needs to be able to bend with out cracking. In other words it shouldn't be too brittle. Low carbon steel with about 1/4% carbon is perfect for lots of structural applications. However, it isn't very hard so it may not be appropriate where sliding wear is of concern.

That's where surface hardening comes in. By heating steel in the presence of carbon, the carbon can diffuse into the steel and make it harder. Old gun makers knew this; therefore, they were able to fashion pieces out of easily worked low carbon steel which was easily bent and even engraved since the metal was soft. Then they would surround the metal in ground charcoal (and sometimes other materials like bone, hoofs, and even urine) and heat it. The carbon would diffuse into the surface making it hard and wear resistant while the rest of the piece retained the toughness and lack of brittleness of the lower carbon steel.

This process is still used today, but adjusting the carbon of the surface of a piece of steel can also be done with certain gasses. For example, if you heat a piece of steel in an atmosphere of carbon dioxide the gas can react with the surface carbon of the steel and make carbon monoxide, reducing the carbon on the surface of the steel. Or, you can use hydrocarbons like methane in which instance carbon is added to the surface of the hot steel achieving the same result old time gun smiths got by using charcoal, bone, and urine.

So, it is certainly possible that a gun maker could heat his action in an atmosphere of something like methane to increase the surface hardness of an action or a bolt (to reduce wear) without making the entire action so hard that might become brittle. I have no idea if Savage surface hardens their actions but I do know that Buck knives uses a process just like this as part of the heat treatment of knives.
 

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