• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Savage repeater actions and the fireballs/vartarg

I am working on a build and have found in researching that a lot of times people are have ejections issues when using this combination of action and ammo. I also saw something along the lines of modifying the extractor a little bit to get things to work. Does anyone here have any experience with this situation? Any ideas, experiences or comments would be appreciated. Just a thought, but would a controlled round bolt head do anything to make this work better? Thanks, Gristlehead
 
I have tried to get a staight answer about this same question; all the way down the control round feed action. No one seems to know. The general concenous is: go with a single shot. Please keep me updated. I want a mag feed rifle in a 20 VarTarg so bad I can taste it. I have a Savage short action sitting in the safe.
 
I had one of my .223 barrels set back to .221 Fireball. I had nothing but problems with "ejection". Extraction wasn't a problem.
Might have been caused by the fact that I was working with a "J" series action?? Problems might not show as much on a short action. Never tried it so I don't know for a fact.
The problem I ran into was that the case would pop off the bolt head as the fired case was pull out of the chamber. I tried shortening the ejector rod. Same problem. Pulled the rod and spring and switched to a "single shot follower". No more problems. I pick the fired case off the bolt head.
 
check over at savageshooters.com for the ejector mod for ejection issues.

as for feeding as a repeater...general consensus is "good luck"
 
Part of the problem is that the case is so short that the neck strikes the top of the action before it reaches the port and can be ejected sometime hard enough to actually dislodge it from the extractors. Being I built my VT on the single shot Savage Target Action and mag feeding wasn't a issue I just removed the ejector and remove the little case by hand.

Being CZ doesn't have any ejection problems with their Fire Ball offerings I'm wondering if Sako extractors would fix the problem? Does anyone know what type of extractors might be availiable on PT&G's bolts for Savage actions, just a thought.

Regards
RJ
 
RJ: Being that it's a Savage he talking about, not sure if too much could be done to correct the problem. And with the removable bolt head on the Savage, there's not much room to make and "major" changes on it's design. "Maybe" if the ejector rod was shortened "just enough" so as not to put too much pressure on the case head, it might improve the ejection process. I tried numerious times but didn't have much luck so I went with the single shot follower. And the more I think about it, even a Saqvage short action would do the same. It's the ejector rod that causes the problem with the "short" case. The less pressure that's put on the case rim, the more chance it will have to clear the action opening before it's kicked off the extractor. Numerious tries with a small file on the ejector rod "might" get him closer to a fix?? Or in your case, a single shot action with the ejector rod removed. ;)
CZ, Remington, etc. seem to have the problem corrected for the short cases.
 
Mike I know that PT&G makes complete replacement bolts to fit Savage action. What I don't know but suspect that they might be one piece similar to what's found on a 700. If so one might contact PT&G and see if Sako extractors can be installed in their replacement bolt.

Regards
RJ
 
I tried it "both" ways. Longer and shorter (rod and spring) and still had problems. A "loaded" round would eject with no problems because it ws longer but the empty fired case would pop off the bolt head because it was being pushed to hard to the right. If the "fix" works for someone else, more power to them. It didn't work for me so I went to the single shot follower.
 
NorCalMikie said:
I tried it "both" ways. Longer and shorter (rod and spring) and still had problems. A "loaded" round would eject with no problems because it ws longer but the empty fired case would pop off the bolt head because it was being pushed to hard to the right. If the "fix" works for someone else, more power to them. It didn't work for me so I went to the single shot follower.

Well...it may just work for the OP which is why I suggested it. He may be like me and some other folks who want it to work "Right" and not finish for second best. ;)

and BTW: You want the travel of the ejector to be a bit more than what it is...not the actual plunger to be longer or shorter. You also want the pressure to the right side to be there. That's why extraction issues are present with the short fatties. How do you think it works in normal extraction? As the case clears the chamber, it's riding the right side of the action till it ejects. Ever take a look at the case mouth after you extract a round? Notice how it may be a bit more shiny?

This may just be the case with my Savage's...not sure about yours. If this is not normal than I better get Savage CS to issue 2 call tags and Remington 1! ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)
 
RugerRalphie said:
NorCalMikie said:
I tried it "both" ways. Longer and shorter (rod and spring) and still had problems. A "loaded" round would eject with no problems because it ws longer but the empty fired case would pop off the bolt head because it was being pushed to hard to the right. If the "fix" works for someone else, more power to them. It didn't work for me so I went to the single shot follower.

Well...it may just work for the OP which is why I suggested it. He may be like me and some other folks who want it to work "Right" and not finish for second best. ;)

and BTW: You want the travel of the ejector to be a bit more than what it is...not the actual plunger to be longer or shorter. You also want the pressure to the right side to be there. That's why extraction issues are present with the short fatties. How do you think it works in normal extraction? As the case clears the chamber, it's riding the right side of the action till it ejects. Ever take a look at the case mouth after you extract a round? Notice how it may be a bit more shiny?

This may just be the case with my Savage's...not sure about yours. If this is not normal than I better get Savage CS to issue 2 call tags and Remington 1! ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)

Ralphie-
So, have you actually successfully made the modifications and had a fireball reliably feed/extract?
 
squirrelsnpr said:
Ralphie-
So, have you actually successfully made the modifications and had a fireball reliably feed/extract?

No, I haven't. But, I have spoken with enough people who have the experience with it and made the mod for reliable EJECTION. Reason being is my liking of the short fat cases and the hopes of adding a custom 6mmBR to the stable in the near future.

Note: This has nothing at all to do with feeding/extraction, just ejection! The answer I always get when it comes to feeding is "Single shot is your best bet"

Also, don't let the post count fool you...I do know a bit of what I am talking about! ;) ;D
 
RR: I don't think anyone is questioning wheather or not you know what you're talking about. ;)
It'a more "have you seen it with your own eyes, tried it and saw it reliable"?
Mine would work "sometimes" and then again it wouldn't. It "wasn't reliable" so I went to the single load. A short action Savage that is set up for the .223 might work "sometimes". The .223 case, being longer, won't tip to the right on ejection like the shorter.221 case. The short case is where the problem comes it. By shortening the tip of the ejector rod, you might be able to relieve enough tension to keep the case on the bolt head till it clears the action port. And the fact that a loaded round will work better on ejection is because of the longer length.
The modification to the ejector rod has been tried numerious times in different configurations but the problem still comes up. No "real" fix yet. Close but no cigar. ;D
 
NorCalMikie said:
RR: I don't think anyone is questioning wheather or not you know what you're talking about. ;)
It'a more "have you seen it with your own eyes, tried it and saw it reliable"?
Mine would work "sometimes" and then again it wouldn't. It "wasn't reliable" so I went to the single load. A short action Savage that is set up for the .223 might work "sometimes". The .223 case, being longer, won't tip to the right on ejection like the shorter.221 case. The short case is where the problem comes it. By shortening the tip of the ejector rod, you might be able to relieve enough tension to keep the case on the bolt head till it clears the action port. And the fact that a loaded round will work better on ejection is because of the longer length.
The modification to the ejector rod has been tried numerious times in different configurations but the problem still comes up. No "real" fix yet. Close but no cigar. ;D

As I said in my previous post, ALL my rifles (.204, .223 and .22-250) have the cases pushed to the right as the case is clearing the chamber. If I am not mistaken, this is the design of the push feed actions. If this is not the case, than I may need to send ALL my rifles back to have them repaired.

As for the ejector plunger, your not shortening the tip with this mod! What you are doing is filing a bit of the plunger to essentially extend the travel of it so it keeps pressure on the case till it clears the port to be flicked out and away. "SharpShooter" himself thought of this mod and we all know he is the Savage Guru.

If in doubt, we can always call Savage and ask them what they do to get the factory 6mmBR's to eject properly. ;)

Anyways, I am trying to help the OP, not debate with you guys! Sorry it didn't work for you but I've had enough people tell me that it works.

Either way, let's agree to disagree and leave it at that! :) BTW: Aren't you a member over at SavageShooters? ;) ;D
 
RR: Been there (Savage Shooters.com) for "quite a few years" and this problem isn't something new.
And if I remember correctly, Fred @ Sharp Shooter Supply mentioned going to the single shot follower to eliminate the problem.
There's a big difference between the .221 Fireball case and the BR cases. The fact that Savage chambers some of it's rifles in the 6BR and has "reliable" feeding and extracton says something.
If Savage had a rifle chambered for the .221 case I don't think there would be a problem but "we all" like to try something a little different. ;) Remington, CZ, Cooper and a few others have the .221 chambering so someone is doing something right. It's just not on a Savage action. I and I'am sure others would love to see what is done to make the Savage action "reliable" for the .221 case.
 
NorCalMikie said:
RR: Been there (Savage Shooters.com) for "quite a few years" and this problem isn't something new.
And if I remember correctly, Fred @ Sharp Shooter Supply mentioned going to the single shot follower to eliminate the problem.
There's a big difference between the .221 Fireball case and the BR cases. The fact that Savage chambers some of it's rifles in the 6BR and has "reliable" feeding and extracton says something.
If Savage had a rifle chambered for the .221 case I don't think there would be a problem but "we all" like to try something a little different. ;) Remington, CZ, Cooper and a few others have the .221 chambering so someone is doing something right. It's just not on a Savage action. I and I'am sure others would love to see what is done to make the Savage action "reliable" for the .221 case.

Please understand, you keep mentioning "feeding and extraction"...I am not referring to either one of those, only EJECTION which is what the OP was asking about.

I also understand the "differences" in the BR and Fireball cases (.15 in overall length, which is the most relevant from my side). Tell me, does Savage make a BR or Fireball "Repeater"? I don't recall making that claim in any of my posts. I do, however, recall mentioning Savage making a 6mmBR that EJECTS properly! ;)

As for the feeding issue, I would agree with you on that! Go with a single shot because getting a repeater to feed is going to be more trouble than it is worth! Has it been done...yes it has with a .17 Fireball.

We are on two different pages here. You are pushing for one issue and I am pushing for the other but you seem to be misunderstanding that I am referring to Ejection and Ejection only! NOT feeding and extraction! Which I agree with the "feeding" part of your argument. :)
 
Thanks for the help fellas. I will try the mods suggested along what sharpshooter suggested. I did talk to him on the phone thursday and he discussed these things in detail with me. You guys covered what he said. Thanks again, gristlehead
 
I thought the original discussion was about the .221 case??

I was under the impression that Savage did/does make a 6BR in a repeater??? Correct me if I'am wrong.
Never really thought about it because I've got 3 Savage barrels chambered in 22 and 6BR but I single feed so ejection isn't a problem on any of them.

Ejection problems with the BR rounds
(6 BR,30 BR, 22 BR etc.) have never come up. I didn't like the brass case getting scratched by the mag lips so I ended up single feeding.
 
The latest version in the Savage line up for the 6BR in a repeater is the 12 LRPV DBM and it has "detatchable magazine". There might have been an earlier offering??
Nothing close to .221 case in a repeater has ever been offered by Savage "that I know of".
Again I could be wrong but if there was, I don't think "ejection" problems would now be in question.
 
WOW...we really seemed to throw this one off whack and confuse each other! LOL ;)


Anyways, enlightening and informative to say the least! :)
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
166,271
Messages
2,215,609
Members
79,518
Latest member
DixieDog
Back
Top