Savage Pre-Fit Barrel Choice

[robbor]

aixenmemphis, I recall talking to you before. Do you recall how far out of round? And did you call LW? Just wondering, no ones perfect.
I have heard of no less than 10 smiths that had problems with pac'nors being way down 5 rockwell points below spec. And a bunch of others getting totally wrong barrels or match chambers throated only for the longest heaviest bullets. I think it more important how many problems there are and how they are addressed. I recall a barrel from volquartsen i though,which is supposed to be LW) that was missing rifling in the middle. Someone also said they had a marlin,green mountain barrels) that from the factory had no rifling at all, and it was not their garden gun. I have never heard a smith call and tell their client, oopse I killed your barrel by accident, I will have to get you another one. I have heard and witness some real horror stories about gunsmiths.

 

[Forum Boss]

FACTS or Hearsay?

Robbor wrote: "Ive heard of many problems with pacnor reamers, unfinished or problem barrels, hardness that is always 5 points lower than their spec which is spec +or- 5, and them not standing behind barrels for gunsmiths. Iver [sic] heard of a few problems with shilen but no where as many as pacnor."

I have heard of no less than 10 smiths that had problems with pac'nors being way down 5 rockwell points below spec. And a bunch of others getting totally wrong barrels or match chambers throated only for the longest heaviest bullets."

Q: Hmmmm. Who is actually making these complaints and what are their names?

That's some pretty heavy negative "hearsay". Robbor alleges "No less than 10 smiths" had problems with soft PacNor steel? Hmmmm.

I speak to dozens of the nation's top smiths on a regular basis. Not once in the last 4 years have I heard a complaint about soft PacNor steel. Not once. From anybody. And that includes Mike Bryant, Dwight Scott, Stan Ware, Stu Harvey, Rich Beginski, Bob Green, Clay Spencer, George Gardner, Mark King, John King, Gary Ocock, Sid Goodling, Dave Tooley, Jim Borden, Billy Stevens etc.. Guys who have built winning rifles. Notice I "named names"?

"Problems" with PacNor reamers? Ummm PacNor doesn't make reamers. If you mean bad chambers, still I'd say the overwhelming # of reports we've received on this website about Pacnor prefit jobs have been positive.

"Getting Totally Wrong barrels". Yeah I've seen that happen. Problem is the examples I've had personally,or confirmed with gunsmiths) have been with OTHER barrel makers, NOT PacNor.

"hardness that is always 5 points lower than their spec which is spec +or- 5". Hmmmm. I can't say I've seen one ounce of evidence supporting this one.

I don't have a dog in this hunt and PacNor is not an advertiser, but I think readers should know that, in the 4 years this site has been operating, the reports we have received, from actual PacNor owners, have been overwhelmingly positive.

I'm very skeptical that "no less that 10 smiths" have gone on record as complaining about PacNor steel.

Robbor's assertions, while possibly well-intentioned, seem without verifiable facts to back them up. Let's hear about your OWN Rifle, your OWN barrel, your OWN gunsmith.

I can say this much about MY PacNor 6BR barrel--700 rounds and the throat has only moved about .004. If it was crap steel why is it not eroding?

I'll also say this about PacNor -- their customer service is excellent and they have a very good record of meeting their delivery date promises,better than some other barrel-makers).

 

[brfun]

I have been reluctant to voice my dissatisfaction with my recent barrel purchase form Pac-Nor as the last thing i want is to cause trouble. but i will never order another barrel form Pac-Nor! hear is a copy of the letter I emailed Cris at Pac-Nor last week witch he has yet to respond to.

I sincerely hope what happened to me is just my bad luck but if not you might want to rethink having Pac-nor make your next barrel!


Mr. Chris Dichter
President, Pac-Nor barreling.

This is not a technical question but as the president of Pac-Nor I feel I need to express to you my extreme dissatisfaction with my barrel purchase and problems that you may or may not be aware of. I will try and keep that as short as I can so not to waist to much of your time.

Around the first of February I ordered on line a .204 12 twist #6 super match barrel.
The next day I received and email thanking me and advising me of the lead-time. So far so good I was excited to hear it was about six weeks. Barrel arrived right on time about six weeks plus a few days for shipping.

That was when the trouble began. I took the barrel and my action to my smith. A couple of weeks latter he called me and informed me of a problem with the barrel bore. Aprox. .004 over sized 3.5” on the shank end and 2” at the muzzle end. He told me he would not chamber this barrel and that I needed to send it back. Talking with him I offered him a few extra dollars if he would contact you folks so he could explain the problem better than I could. He agreed and agreed that this was probably a good idea.

The smith emailed and phoned with no response to either. Called again and left message still no response. Called again this time leaving a message that he was interested in a barrel. This time he got a return call. Explaining the problem who ever he talked to was understanding and told us to just send it back and you would take a look at it.

Other than the trouble trying to contact you folks with the problem and get any response so far things are going as well as could be expected. I fully understand that things happen and how a barrel like this might have made it through your quality control.

Packed it up and sent it back with a letter as instructed as to the problem. Also in the letter I ask to be contacted with what you find out and think. A copy of the letter was in with the barrel as well as the packing slip.

Again no response by email or phone. About a week after you received my barrel back I emailed inquiring about it. No reply! A couple of days latter I called and left a message again no return call. My smith called me asking if I had heard anything. Telling him no luck. He called the next day and was able to talk to someone. She didn’t know what the problem was but you mush have found something as you were making me a new barrel. Told us you would get it out as soon as possible. But had no idea as to when.

Another couple of weeks passed and I understand this takes time but the smith as I was just curious about when so he could try and schedule my work in as soon as he could. I talked to a very pleasant lady that told me by barrel had shipped that day and gave me the tracking number. Fantastic things are staring to look up.

Barrel arrived one again I was very excited to finally get the project going. That was until I unpacked the second barrel to find it is a #3 contour instead of the #6 I had ordered and paid for and sent back once.

I don’t have time now and nether dose the smith to sent this barrel back and try for a third. Not to mention once I understand but to goof up a second time I have no reason to think you could get right on the third try. The bore measured okay according to my smith so I will keep the barrel and told him to go ahead and chamber it and I would make it work.

It has been a total now of about fifteen weeks and I have a barrel witch is not what I wanted or ordered and paid for plus freight back once plus twenty to the smith for his trouble. Hopefully it will shoot okay but even still it will look like crap in my stock that is inletted for a #6.

My total dissatisfaction with everything now makes me want to just send it back and get my money back. And order another form another barrel maker witch I have had good service from in the past, but again I don’t have the time now for that either. I have no idea how you could even make it right by me at this point. The things I can think of aren’t fair to you as a business so maybe you have an idea how to make this right.

Thank you for your time.

and all my contact info.

 

[robbor]

For a moderator, you sure are twisting my words.
The first thing i stated "I have heard" so take it all as hearsay.
The first quote you used, is a quote you wrote to summarize my post, not my actual quote. I never used the word reamer in my post yet you seem to bash me for misrepresenting a long throat chamber as a bad reamer, which i did not. I am glad that only the top smiths have hardness testers and are qualified to use them, it would be a shame if anyone else developed an opinion. Im guessing since you spoke to all these guys that they all share your opinion, since you seem to want to speak for them. I did not realize I was going to court today. Also soft does not mean crap, it means soft, it is a relative term. I called no ones product crap, once again you seem to want to twist my words or rather speak for me. And lastly you say i have no verifiable facts, before you even ask me.
Sounds like im a liar. Good to know.

 

[Forum Boss]

For a moderator, you sure are twisting my words.
The first thing i stated "I have heard" so take it all as hearsay.
The first quote you used, is a quote you wrote to summarize my post, not my actual quote. I never used the word reamer in my post yet you seem to bash me for misrepresenting a long throat chamber as a bad reamer, which i did not.

Twisting your words? I think not. Here is your prior post, from the top of the page 3 of this thread, with the quoted section highlighted:

And here is what I said: "Robbor wrote: "Ive heard of many problems with pacnor reamers, unfinished or problem barrels, hardness that is always 5 points lower than their spec which is spec +or- 5, and them not standing behind barrels for gunsmiths. Iver [sic] heard of a few problems with shilen but no where as many as pacnor."

Maybe you forgot what you posted at the top of the page??

Im guessing since you spoke to all these guys that they all share your opinion, since you seem to want to speak for them.

What I'm saying is that I talk to ALL these guys on a regular basis. And I have never, ever heard one of them complain about PacNor delivering soft barrels. I HAVE heard a few complaints about OTHER barrel makers for that reason however.

There's nothing wrong with a reader expressing dissatisfaction with a product or a manufacturer based on his or her experience. I take issue with those who blast a business because they "know a guy who knows a guy who told his buddy he had a problem."

Robbor, have you ever purchased or chambered a PacNor barrel? Have you ever inspected their steel or investigated where PacNor sources its blanks? Who are the "no less than 10 smiths" whom you say have had problems? I'll be the first guy to forward their names to PacNor.

Every manufacturer makes mistakes. It's how they deal with those errors that matters. Hopefully BRFun's situation will be resolved soon. If he wishes, he can contain me via email and I will contact PacNor on his behalf.

 

[vmthtr]

I have 2 Pac Nors. I came in second in WI state HBR match with it in 2006, and the 1st place guy was shooting a Pac Nor also. I also used Pac Nor for my prefit 6 BR barrel and it shoots great also. Can't say enough good about them.

Mike