Savage Model 12 Short Throat

[1holeaddict]

Well i just started playing with a new Savage Model 12 in 6br. I am trying to find a long range load. The issue i am having is that i have tried 105-Amax, 105 Berger hunting & , target ,105 JLK, 105 Hornady match, 107 sierra mk, 95 sierra mk, and 95 Berger vld. I can not find a bullet that i can seat at the neck shoulder junction they are all in the shoulder or even below the shoulder. The two i can get the closest is the 105 JLK and the 95 sierra MK but they are still below the junction. I am really wanting a 105 or 107 to work but dont want to waste a ton of time and supplies. I am assuming the gun has been throated short. Any recommendations are welcome.

 

[Terry]

What twist rate is is?

The 1:8's are throated for 105-108's, the 1:12 are throated for shorter bullets.
You may want to check the twist rate with a cleaning rod and tight patch.

 

[1holeaddict]

It is the Model 12 benchrest with the 29" barrel and 1 in 8 twist. I havent checked it but i will . It is possible Savage slipped up.

 

[LRPV]

95 Berger vld should stay out of there. Can't remember for sure if the 105 hybrid will stick out farther than the vld or not.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I use the 95 Berger VLD in my 1-8 6br short throat. I found it easy to get an accurate load that would take me out to 1k (used it from 300 - 1k last f-open season). The 95 Berger has an extremely good BC for its weight and the short bearing surface means that you can make it go fast without pressure.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Be "REAL GLAD" it's short. Usually just the other way around. After a few rounds the bullets you started off with won't reach the lands.
Back off to 60s or 80s and go heavier as the throat wears. (and it will, sooner than you expect)

 

[1holeaddict]

I found that the Sierra Mk 95 grainers hit the lands and are close to the neck shoulder junction. The bergers are below the junction quite a bit.

 

[NorCalMikie]

The BIG question is, "How do they shoot"? You talking BT or FB?
It's the target group that counts. 8)
How do they shoot for "You" in "Your" gun?

 

[1holeaddict]

The BIG question is, "How do they shoot"? You talking BT or FB?
It's the target group that counts. 8)
How do they shoot for "You" in "Your" gun?

I will find out tomorrow morning. I have only shot the 107 Mk and 105 Bergers so far and wasnt impressed so im dropping down to the 95's after a few groups of the 105 JLK's. All my testing is being done at 200 yards and every round goes thru a chronograph.

 

[1holeaddict]

The BIG question is, "How do they shoot"? You talking BT or FB?
It's the target group that counts. 8)
How do they shoot for "You" in "Your" gun?

I will find out tomorrow morning. I have only shot the 107 Mk and 105 Bergers so far and wasnt impressed so im dropping down to the 95's after a few groups of the 105 JLK's. All my testing is being done at 200 yards and every round goes thru a chronograph.They are all BT bullets.

 

[6BRinNZ]

The BIG question is, "How do they shoot"? You talking BT or FB?
It's the target group that counts. 8)
How do they shoot for "You" in "Your" gun?

I will find out tomorrow morning. I have only shot the 107 Mk and 105 Bergers so far and wasnt impressed so im dropping down to the 95's after a few groups of the 105 JLK's. All my testing is being done at 200 yards and every round goes thru a chronograph.They are all BT bullets.

As a rule of thumb if you have the bearing surface into the neck shoulder junction you will run into issues.

This could well be the one reason you can't get the others to shoot. Before I shot the 95s I used to use the berger 88s. I developed what I thought was a good load but every time I went to the range I was slightly disappointed, I couldn't get the repeatable accuracy I was after...being a 6br and all.

Long story short the 88s seated into the neck shoulder, any bullet not seating the bearing surface into that area has shot well.

According to Brian litz book, the berger 95 has an OAL of 1.150 and a bearing surface of .285, the 95 Matchking is OAL 1.180, BS .330 and the JLK is OAL 1.245, BS .341.

So if you can't keep the 95 Berger out of the neck shoulder it is an amazingly short throat. It is the bearing surface thats going into neck/shoulder and not just the boat tail aye?

 

[sparky123321]

It's pretty easy to increase the freebore/throat. If you wish to do it yourself the tool is available at Midwayusa for around $100. It's actually on sale right now.

 

[fdshuster]

Throating only reamers are available from PTG for approx. $66. My main problem with having the bullet bearing surface seated at or below the neck/shoulder junction is that there may be contact between the bullet & the donut that will form there. Not good.

I take an as-fired case & drop the subject bullet into the case neck. If it falls all the way into the case, no donut.

If that bullet hangs up with the base at the neck/shoulder, then there is a donut at that location. I then use the Stoney Point Over-all-gauge to take a dimension from the case head to the contact point on the ogive & record that length.

For example: On my 8 twist Hart barreled 223, the 80 gr. SMK will hang up with base to ogives length measurements of 2.006" to 2.013". My 80 gr. SMK's, seated to touch will have that same dimension at 2.022", so for that particular load I'm seated with the bullet in front of the donut, by a minimum of .009" to a maximum of .016".

I've tried many different methods in removing the donuts & none seems to work as advertised.

Not trying to highjack the thread to one about donuts, just pointing out some of the problems with deep seating & maybe something to be aware of.

 

[Shynloco]

1holeaddict,
I understand the part about wanting to find a long range load and the rifle you are using. I get lost in all the shoulder loading stuff. So might I suggest you give a try to what I use in my Savage Model 12br which is the same as your's (w/1:8 twist). Now admittedly I don't shoot "long range" because of my eyesight issues that are inescapable once you get older. But what I use with my Sierra 107's MK is 28.1 - 28.3 gr of Varget with the bullet seated touching the lands with an ojive measurement of 2.869 - 2.870 (depending on your caliper reading). Load a few and then make adjustments in the powder load if she shows promise in your rig. Just because it works in mine doesn't mean it'll work for you, but it might be worth a try. Good luck.

BTW, after loading for this rifle for 2 years now and doing all sorts of testing, I'm finding that in my Model 12br, that I'm getting the best performance and accuracy out of my Lapua brass with the necks turned to .0014. I've got a new batch of Lapua brass coming to check my loads for my 68 Bart's (both FB & HPBT) and my Sierra 107's MK's bullets against unturned necks to see if there is a drop off in accuracy because of neck tension differences/consistency that I look for in all my brass.